Question! Raggedy BJDs, what don't I get? [Archive]

DanceCat

01-04-2009, 04:27 AM

Chibi_Fluffy

01-04-2009, 01:37 PM

Well you just answered your own question :)

They do it becasue they want :o

I do not have a doll, and like you I think they are pieces of art that should be kept as beautiful as the first time you put your hands on them.

But some people have stories they want to show and ideas they want to make, so they do so by transforming, clothing the only thing that can really represent their ideas and still look like a miniature human.

I have seen horrible things on dolls, but if the person likes it, and that is what they wanted, so be it :3

I will still try to make mine the best piece of art there is, and some people are sure to not like it too, even if in my mind it would be better then tons of others XP

Still have to get it though XD

saraquill

01-04-2009, 02:03 PM

You also need to remember that Twilight Zone episode, "Eye of the Beholder." What may look hideous to one person may be gorgeous to another.

sgtgeorgecarter

01-05-2009, 12:38 AM

I've had some of my dolls in bad wigs, hacked up shirts and my own heinous faceups but I sure didn't take pictures of them and show them expecting compliments. I keep those moments to myself ;) I don't present anyone until I feel comfortable that they look ok. They don't have to be Fashion Magazine styled amazing but they are neat, clean and I try to keep on top of the wigs. It surprises me that not everyone takes the same care.

I think there's just not enough emphasis on nice presentation. I don't think it's helping anyone to compliment on sloppiness.

Jme

01-05-2009, 01:34 PM

Unfortunately, not everyone has the same aesthetic values. And also, what may look sloppy to some could look respectable to another (at least I hope that's it, and not just plain laziness that is stopping them from putting in the effort!).

Also, I reckon there's just a lot of doll owners out there who are very proud of their dolls and want to show them off as often as they can - taking photos and posting them online is one way, especially when not everyone has the luxury of having friends/family in real life that appreciate them. So many in their haste, doll grooming gets overlooked? :whome

I dress my dolls the way I do simply because I enjoy them best that way, and I don't think I've ever lied and said I liked a doll or thought it beautiful when I don't. I may try to find some good points about it (eg. nice eye colour, or great wig style), or if I can't find anything I like, I'll just keep quiet. :oops

sgtgeorgecarter

01-05-2009, 03:48 PM

There's aesthetic values (like thinking yellow, hot pink and lime are a soft colour combination) and there's looking like you've been dragged through a hedge backwards.

I'm sure it is enthusiasm that has owners wanting to share, sometimes before their doll is ready.

InkyBear

01-06-2009, 02:33 AM

I wonder if you're just talking about clothing style alone or face-ups and wigs ( the overall look ) as well. For the actual clothing their can be a variety reasons, the biggest one I'm thinking is that many times these dolls are based around or built into characters, and not all characters enjoy wearing the finest things out there, just the same as some people like to wear grunge or torn clothing. For me personally, I have some characters who are royalty and I do enjoy finding them the nicest quality clothes and accessories to suit their status and making them look beautiful, however on the other end, I do have a couple of boys who've grown up in a very rough neighborhood, so in line with that I will also dress them in appropriately grunged up jackets and jeans. Not actually dirty or anything, but definately a very different style than what my King and knights wear.

Now, if you're talking about clothes that are just not made well ( seams fraying when their not supposed to be, visible stitching, etc. ) and wigs and face-ups that are just not very well done, well, as other people have said, that's all in the ey of the beholder. Some people might be so madly in love with their dolls they may not even notice what, to you, is glaringly ugly. On the same note, these dolls are expensive and some people ( including myself ) might need awhile to save a little before being able to spend that extra on nice quality clothing, face-ups, etc. and rather than having the doll sit around naked and faceless, just do an impromptu one themselves. And as was stated previously, sometimes it's just really fun to share with friends if you have no else to, and even if the doll isn't 100% complete yet, why should that stop you from posting pictures for your buddies? ^^

sgtgeorgecarter

01-06-2009, 03:09 AM

I wonder if you're just talking about clothing style alone or face-ups and wigs ( the overall look ) as well.

What I'm talking about is the impression of sloppinss/carelessness I'm seeing.

Brush the wig, straighten the clothes, see that the eyes are set in decently, not all <.>, see that the smudges from wigs and clothes are cleaned off. That's just taking care of your expensive doll that you saved so much for. When taking a picture, pose them, don't just fling them on a chair or the floor. Try and check that you have focus (I'm guilty of this one), Try not to shoot up their nose. Indeed look at your picture before you post it. It's digital, if it blows, erase it and take another.

(the proverbial you here)

And as was stated previously, sometimes it's just really fun to share with friends if you have no else to, and even if the doll isn't 100% complete yet, why should that stop you from posting pictures for your buddies? ^^

Nothing at all. But you shouldn't be fishing for compliments either as I've seen (again the proverbial you :) )

Perfection is hardly necessary, nor are expensive clothes, wigs or accessories. Its more of a sense of care that is lacking in the way some dolls are shown. I don't understand it but hey not everyone is me.

Taco

01-09-2009, 08:37 PM

Sometimes if someone is just starting out there will be room for improvement, but they still want to share their doll. As time goes on, they will probably think "I bet I could do that better now" and redo the faceup, or wig, or outfit and on it goes...we all start somewhere and it can be a bit of a journey to make it to where you want to end up. That's kind of the way it's been for me--as I go on I get pickier, because I feel like I can do better. Granted, if I commissioned someone to do all their faceups they would all look more professional, but then I wouldn't have had the enjoyment of doing my own, nor would I have given myself the chance to improve.

This is all assuming that you mean quality of faceup, clothes, etc and not just the doll's look. I have one fellow that wears ripped up jeans, beat up sneakers, and has mussy hair, because that's how his character dresses. Liam wouldn't be Liam if he actually looked put together ;)

topazrain

02-20-2009, 04:31 PM

:?:?Please don't beat me up I'm just curious...
I've come across many photos of dolls that seem very "sloppy" so to speak and I wonder why some folks would pay such high prices for dolls just to keep them raggedy looking.

I fell in love with BJDs is because they were initially depicted to me with beautiful faces and excellent Anime style costuming.

I am not trying to bash anyone's doll style but I'm just lost as to the purpose of owning a Raggedy BJD.

I understand that BJD lovers support each other in saying each other's dolls are beautiful when in fact they appear quite atrocious, and so I may be soon banned from this forum for even asking.
So, please, as mature adults I'd like some feedback and thoughts here on why YOU dress your doll(s) the way YOU have chosen.

Thank you,

:?

It's just a different aesthetic. What you or I might define as being raggedy could potentially be grungey for another ABJD enthusiast. Some dolls are more of an acquired taste than others. I for one prefer the pomposity of clothing that effuses decadence and lace, airbrushed faceups that cost more than a week's salary for me. That's just my aesthetic.

Many local hobbyists that I've come to meet have a different view of what is tasteful. In fact, I think I'm one of two in the state who prefer a similar ostentation in fashion and she's opposed to owning a girl doll and thus girl clothes. But whatever, it's diversity. It just means more outlandishly extravagant clothes for me rake in. <3

Oh but to be rich! I languish, I pine, I perish. :cry

aiowen_darray

04-02-2009, 02:38 AM

My dolls basically wear what I do or would wear, It's easy for me to sit and make them some cut-sew clothing that's punkish or trendy rather than for me to go out and spend the money to do it on myself. Plus if it looks good on them then I can be more confidant about trying it out for myself.

So I guess they're my test dumbies for clothing just as much as I am for them XD

Happy.Knot

04-22-2009, 07:52 PM

For some owners this is the very first time they've picked up a paint brush, handled a camera for the sake of creating art and the first time they've gotten to do something feminine and artful. They are proud of what they have personally achieved and it's their right to share it with the community.

PrincePadriac

07-10-2009, 09:27 AM

... sure ... there is indeed different preferences on aesthetics. I can look at a doll and think "there is no way I would ever want a doll of mine to be like that, but the look is put together nicely" ..but that being said it goes a little far when a face up looks like a two year old tried to play with magic markers or the outfit is made out of a tube sock with the ends cut off.

I am not saying that I personally have a problem with what people want to do with their dolls, just that it doesn't make sense to me. There is usually a standard to what looks good no matter what people would like to think. For instance (OT) you don't see fat hairy women in bikini's posing in sports illustrated, or people who dress like transients working at your local bank.

What I am getting at is that you wouldn't buy a 400$-700$ painting and crap all over it, and hang it on your wall, would you? Then why would you do the same with your doll?

Sorry if this is offensive to anyone :) this is surely not my intention. Just thought I would post a different opinion other than "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" ... just to make it interesting ;3

PrincePadriac

07-10-2009, 09:29 AM

usagi665

07-11-2009, 11:21 AM

Same reason why people buy designer clothing worth thousands of dollars and style it horribly. They think it looks good, or are trying too hard.

XinAn

07-20-2009, 01:40 AM

As people have said, it's a matter of personal preference.

I am a person who would never go out in public looking like she just rolls out of bed half awake and stumbled into the street so in reflection, my dolls are dressed and neatened properly before they come in contact with outside eyes. I think there is a way for even sloppy charactered dolls to look put together. ^__^

Buff

07-25-2009, 10:28 PM

I think some of it too is personal blinders. Like...when you are so infatuated with something, you may just not notice that the wig looks like a rat's nest. Sort of like how my hubby had to finally tell me that my Star Wars T-Shirt was falling apart and not to wear it anymore. I loved it so much...I just never noticed it was shabby. It looked awesome to me.

Leenah

10-01-2009, 03:42 PM

Sloppy dolls come from people who just don't really see what they've put together. A lot of the time (not always, but this seems to be the general case) those with sloppy dolls tend to be stingy with money: the doll was expensive, so they decide to save money by doing a crappy face-up themselves, not practicing, getting or making clothes that have little effort into them, etc. It comes off as lazy when a doll is filthy or the eyes are not put in properly among other things.

It's frustrating as well because with more effort and more searching, nice things can be found at a smaller price if someone looks around enough.

Absinthe

04-22-2010, 08:44 PM

I am actually with you. I have never understood that Or when they do the cheap bad paint jobs on them .. Why Sped hundreds of dollars on a doll to use $0.50 craft paint. At least use a good acrylic that s not going to stain and will have the right texture..
As for clothing it is very expensive and I can understand if people make due here and there it when they own 12 days and are all ragged looking as you put it.

IDK. I take care of my things and like to make then all look their very best. Even as a child my friends would cut their barbie dolls hair and I would cringe and run off to protect mine.

toshirodragon

04-22-2010, 11:15 PM

Because not everyone sees things the same way. Period. And it's none of anyone else's business how I dress my doll paid for with my money as long as I am satisfied with it.

sgtgeorgecarter

04-22-2010, 11:32 PM

Well if you (the proverbial you) want your dolls to look like a hot mess, enjoy away. Not everyone will agree with you. Or compliment your taste. Or even be nice about it. But as you are personally satisfied, that shouldn't be an issue, should it?

AmyAngel

04-23-2010, 12:24 AM

I think it just depends on the person. Some of my dolls I think look great, some need more work. I'm getting better at styling them, and as time goes on I'm getting pickier and "upgrading" to better and nicer things as I can (though I still prefer to go inexpensive wherever possible!). But yeah my first one stayed in his fullset stuff for quite a while, everyone started with acrylic eyes and it took some practice to set them decently... Also some of mine are meant to look slightly raggedy, it's their aesthetic (and I think most people get that, since deliberately raggedy doll clothes tend toward the more expensive side - see Anotherspace and the non-finished edges on Fers for examples).

I do think part of it is just that people "see" differently. My cousin (age 13, so pretty young) has 3 dolls and a head, now, and she just doesn't seem to notice the standards other people keep their dolls to. Even at a meet when she SEES other people taking several minutes to pose their dolls well and fix their clothes and hair, it just doesn't seem to occur to her to do more than pull hers out of the bag and plop them down on the table, with their arms and hands all up in the air, feet turned sideways and their hair looking like rat's nests. She keeps saving and buying new dolls without ever bothering to get even a $3 pair of shoes for her girl, even when she's ordering clothes for the new dolls and could throw them in to the order easily. And she and her mother kind of teased me for being careful to pose and arrange our dolls well for a photo I took of them! She enjoys her dolls and plays with them (a lot, and I mean PLAY, like taking them downstairs for dinner, etc.) in her own way, and at least right now the styling and such are not something she seems to notice. I fix them for her when I see them, and try not to let it bother me. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are bothered by something about mine, too!

So I think part of it is just evolving as a doll owner... most people get much better over time at styling, dressing, photography, etc. Partly because of practice, partly because of seeing more of the hobby. And some of it really IS that people just see differently. Some people will see the doll in the photo and not notice the stuff in the background, some will notice the focus of the photo but not the posing, some will notice the focus and posing but not notice the eyes are wonky, etc.

And I agree it's not really anyone else's business. They are just dolls, in the end.

s0yuz

04-23-2010, 12:59 AM

It really depends upon the doll's personality and my mood. My Soom big boy has a very nice and expensive period costume, but he's just as likely to loaf around in contemporary casual. His hair is full of flyaways and, really, goes with the wig style in my opinion.

In any event, it's no one's business but my own how I dress my dolls. Anyone who believes otherwise should have never been allowed to graduate junior high school because, clearly, that mentality belongs there.

Tygati

04-23-2010, 05:59 AM

I regularly spend ten minutes making sure my boys' hair is brushed and arranged nicely, only to take them outside where the Oregon wind makes a disaster of all my hard work in two seconds. -__-;

I think I am far more forgiving of questionable clothing than I am of poor photography. Clothing could be someone who spent hours but has minimal skill, but I remain utterly baffled as to why people can't seem to figure out how to utilize their camera's auto-focus. I don't see well, even with my contacts, and even then I usually only end up with badly out of focus pictures when I'm trying to shoot in low-light situations.

Crystal

04-23-2010, 01:54 PM

There's kind of a steep learning curve in BJDs. But I think you can see where some have made the effort or not. Just as I think it's fairly easy to differentiate between the shabby chic and just plain carelessness. Sometimes I wonder if it's a case of whether they had to pay for the doll themselves. In everyday life it seems that people treat things they had to work for better than things just handed to them. And maybe some of it has to do with the mentality of getting a trophy for just showing up. :?

I can appreciate when someone had made the effort, even if it's not to my tastes. . . because everyone is different and, like many things, you learn by doing.

ArcaneDesires

04-23-2010, 04:43 PM

Because it's personal preference. Some of the dolls that I see people fawning over and saying how utterly gorgeous and amazing they look, I look at and think 'Um what? That looks horrible!'

Different people have different views of ugly, beautiful, nice and clean etc. As someone else mentioned 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.' I spent hundreds of dollars on my boys and I will have them look and dress how it pleases me. If other's don't like it, then that's tough. I won't change the things I like and how I see the things I spent all the money on, just to please people I don't even know.

Everyone has different tastes and it's up to them what they like. If I don't find something pleasing I won't lie and go into the thread and gush along with everyone else who does like it. I just don't comment at all. Unless there is something there that I like. One of my boys is supposed to look a little grubby and untidy, it's part of his character and I love that about him. If other's don't, well it's really none of their business you know?

My doll, my beauty. XD

countrygirl

04-24-2010, 11:09 PM

This is a hobby and everyone brings a different set of skills and values. Some people have never studied photography and just getting a head positioned correctly is new. Everyone has a different budget they can work with and do the best they can. There is a big learning curve in the bjd's and it takes time and patience to get better. It doesn't matter how someone's dolls are represented. If they are enjoying their dolls and having a good time with them then that is great and I commend them for participating. We are all individuals with different ideas and these dolls are ours to represent our ideas. None of us are exactly alike in our thoughts and interests.

lolkat

04-25-2010, 02:33 PM

Glad I'm not the only one who sees some photos and thinks do they even look at these before they post them?
By all means, people should be allowed to post whatever they want and I completely understand how details can get overlooked when you're eager to get photographing. But when it's little things like not taking the time to pose the doll less awkwardly or use a lint roller I can't understand why people don't do it.
I've seen gorgeously styled dolls whose owners were working to a tight budget and I've seen people make expensive outfits look bad so I don't think it's an issue of spending money.
3 of my 5 cameras are actually film so I don't always have the luxury of seing the pic I've taken and I have to admit I often find I've missed things when I too the photo - flyaway hairs and rumpled clothes usually get me. But I just don't want to share bad pics, I want to show my doll clearly and at her best.

But I think you can see where some have made the effort or not. Just as I think it's fairly easy to differentiate between the shabby chic and just plain carelessness.
I can appreciate when someone had made the effort, even if it's not to my tastes. . . because everyone is different and, like many things, you learn by doing.
This. I don't confuse a doll that's not to my taste with a doll that's just not had care take with it's presentation.

toshirodragon

04-25-2010, 02:38 PM

The obsession with flyaway hair in the hobby scares me it's borderline OCD.

So there's a stray hair, real people's hair doesn't lay straight and flat unless it's dirty or unheathly.

A lot of time I look at a pic and shrug because I don't feel like resetting things up and shooting again just to post on a dolly board. C'mon this is the freaking Louvre folks.

Karhys

04-25-2010, 03:12 PM

For me, I see my dolls as a thing of beauty, an art form and creative medium. So I like to make them look beautiful because that's what makes me smile; to see them looking their best. Their beauty brightens up my living space, my every day, and my life.

When I take pictures, I want to reflect that beauty. So I like to take the time to make them look their best. If that means spending more time posing them, fixing their hair so that it looks nice, making sure their clothes are tidy and stylish, etc than I spend actually taking the pictures, than that's okay with me. That's part of my enjoyment of the dolls, too.

I may occasionally take quick & dirty pics to show things to friends, but I only show those to friends. When I am posting pictures on the internet in general, be it on a dolly board, Flickr, my blog, or elsewhere, I want to show people something worth looking at. If they took the time to look at my picture, then I want to reward them with something that is worth looking at. And I feel the same way when I look at other people's pictures.

People are welcome to love their dolls however they want, play with them however they want, and that's okay. But when they're posting pictures on the internet and asking others (however indirectly) to look at them, that's when they're bringing other people into the equation. That's when it stops being just about how they play with them. If they're posting pictures in a public place, then they are asking other people's opinions by default.

And I personally feel at the end of the day... if they aren't interested in putting the extra effort in when they take their pictures, then why should I be expected to put the extra effort in to look at, appreciate, or comment on their pictures? That may seem cold, but my time is just as precious as theirs. (And I have very little free time.)

toshirodragon

04-25-2010, 04:08 PM

And I personally feel at the end of the day... if they aren't interested in putting the extra effort in when they take their pictures, then why should I be expected to put the extra effort in to look at, appreciate, or comment on their pictures? That may seem cold, but my time is just as precious as theirs. (And I have very little free time.)

Would it be too offensive to say that you aren't my target audience when I post?

I'm not looking to join the ranks of those who treat their dolls like museum pieces and quest for perfection. My target audience is people who appreciate and want to read a good story with lots of excitement and characters they can sympathize with...

And to guess by my threads in the photostory gallery I'm succeeding.:hyper

Karhys

04-25-2010, 04:23 PM

Would it be too offensive to say that you aren't my target audience when I post?

No, because my post wasn't targeted at you, and you are taking things too personally if you believe that it was. I was commenting in general in response to the topic of this thread, which is what I believe this thread is for -- a general discussion between several people about a general concept.

That said, if we're discussing conceptually... when I want to read a good story, I usually want to be able to immerse myself in it. This is something I find a lot easier to do if the entire setting looks believable. When I do photostories (which I've been doing for many, many years) I like to think about everything involved... not just the story, the characters, and their script, but also their poses, their outfits, and the background; the setting that they're acting out the story in. I find great delight in building an entire room (background, furniture, props etc) that looks believable for the story being told because that makes a real difference to me.

But I get the same pleasure out of movies, TV shows, or books that feel real to me, that put the effort in. Sure, something like "Clerks" was shot on a heck of a minimum budget, but the effort was really put into it and it still looked damned believable. And then something big name like "Avatar" (to get a little more recent) was easier to fall into and believe, for all its otherworldliness, because of the effort put into the visuals.

A good story is the driving force behind, well, anything that's trying to tell a story. A story that looks pretty but has no depth is pointless and I have no interest in it. Characters that act like cardboard fail to draw my attention. Conversely, it's true that a good story and good characters can drive something that otherwise looks pretty mediocre. But looks go a long, long way, especially when you (the general you) are trying to draw someone into another world. And for me, the story and the characters better be pretty damn good to hold my attention if the rest is going to be lacking.

And something with good story, good characters, and believable pretty? That is something I'm going to remember for years to come. And for me, whether I can or not I don't know, but I'd sure like to make something that people will remember for years to come. But hey, that's just me. :)

toshirodragon

04-25-2010, 04:52 PM

Well no I didn't take it personally, I just didn't want to sound like I was trying to pick a fight.

Kyrenea

04-25-2010, 10:45 PM

Are they raggedy, or just not what you approve?

That is a very important question to consider. I say that because it seems some think their approval is necessary for another to find enjoyment in what they are doing.

Take a moment to step back and realize that the hobby is about each individual owner's enjoyment.

As with life, your rights end where mine begin...which is about the tip of your nose...or in this case, maybe your doll's nose.

We are all at a different level.

Some of us are of the type that the dolls are expensive and beautiful pieces of art and we dress, style and take photos to reflect that taste.

There are other people out there who are in the school of I bought it to play with and since it is a toy I'll treat it as such.

And then you have all that middle ground.

What makes one "right" and the others "wrong"???

The statement "my doll, my prerogative" is 100% valid, regardless of who is using the arguement.

I admit in my time as an admirer and then as an owner and now getting into the area of mods and clothing creation I've seen a lot that made me stop and go "Oh WOW!"...and not always in a good way.

I might have seen some ugly dresses, dreadful wigs, and face-ups that could use some practice...but I've never seen an "ugly doll". I dont' think they exist, but then I'm very much aware of "beauty in the eye of the beholder". And I'm very much the type that stops and looks at the whole picture.

At the end of the day, I have little time for those who can't stop and find beauty in something simple.

I really want to spend my time w/people that can enjoy the simple aspects of this hobby and enjoy getting their hands dirty and doing it themselves and learning through trial and error.

Some of these "raggedy" dolls are nothing more than a milestone on the learning curve.

They should be respected for what they are - an effort on someone's part to enjoy a hobby, share it with others and in some cases do it themselves vs paying someone else a ton of money. If they are below your taste in enjoyment, then step away and leave them alone. Why destroy another person's dream just because you think you have the right to say "that is ugly"?

If you think my dolls are "raggedy" maybe they were not meant for you to enjoy. As others have said, I post post in order to share with friends...and friends tend to be forgiving if things are less than perfect.

Just my 2 cents...sorry it got rather long.

ozziegoth

05-14-2010, 05:59 AM

A camera also picks up more than a human eye too - that smudge you didn't see, that bald spot in the wig, wonky eyes and the fact your doll has been sitting and its clothes are now all wrinkly.

Taco

05-14-2010, 05:51 PM

A camera also picks up more than a human eye too - that smudge you didn't see, that bald spot in the wig, wonky eyes and the fact your doll has been sitting and its clothes are now all wrinkly.

No kidding -- there's nothing like thinking you have all the pesky fly aways under control, and then you take the pic, load it on to the computer and BAM -- Fly aways of doom :(

Angelsfalling

05-15-2010, 08:47 AM

And then again, some styles of clothing are meant to look messy. I'm finishing up a commission that's based on an asian singer's outfit, and it's deconstructed and fraying and that's how it's meant to be. I used to work for an art clothing designer, and many of her fashions had raw edges all over the place and trust me, they sold! it was hard for me to make, like this outfit, since my mind wraps around clean finishes and tailoring, but it's a completely valid style and I wish I was better at dealing with it. I almost had a wobbly when I realised the fancy Dollheart Fer dresses had raw edges on all the ruffles!

Lindley

05-29-2010, 11:01 PM

I wonder what you mean by sloppy? If you mean done by the owner herself, and not to standards of factory perfection - then I will take a doll, painted by someone just learning, in clothes they have made themselves with painful labour and mistakes, any time over yet another bland "beautiful" doll with a factory or big name faceup and yet another Dollheart outfit. Because to me something done with love and learning and planning and care in aid of the vision of the person making it is always going to be more "art" than something looking all shiny and bland and "perfect" because the owner has charged something to her paypal. More character, more heart - more everything. And I suspect that's just what some people on this thread hate, imperfect art.

I'd be terribly sad if all the first-time faceups and homemade clothes vanished. I know there's people to whom the hobby will always be about looking at expensive dolls looking nice, but what appeals to me is the customisation and personalisation - I'd hate it if that vanished because people felt too much peer pressure to make their dolls look "right".

A couple of my dolls have come with factory faceups and brand name clothes, and it's fun for a bit, but in the end, they always go, because what I want is my dolls to be my creation. I get bored with admiring them and want to play instead. It's like wedding cakes: we could have just ordered one and have it be "perfect", but our imperfect amateur one gave us so much more joy and pride because it was ours. And I'm not going to sneer at that same impulse in anyone else, no matter what their level of technical ability.

dumbbunneh

06-01-2010, 04:20 PM

So, please, as mature adults I'd like some feedback and thoughts here on why YOU dress your doll(s) the way YOU have chosen.

I will honestly say that I do my best to dress my doll as nicely as I can with the talents that I have. My pieces are far from perfect, and I have a ways to go in the way of sewing high quality doll clothes, but I think that I do better than many.

The reason I choose to sew the clothes for my doll is also very simple - I can save heaps of money doing so. I can make a tshirt for my doll using probably about 40 cents worth of fabric. As opposed to spending (at minimum) 5$ for a very basic tshirt.

I know all of that doesn't really address the 'sloppy' or 'raggedy' part of your discussion. Honestly, I think I dress Mirai fairly well. As for other peoples' dolls, it's not really my place to judge how other people dress their dollies.

Buuuuuut there are sometimes where I have to scratch my head and ponder what kind of reaction a doll's owner is expecting to get when posting images that obviously have very little effort put into them.

The way I see it is if I am going to go through the effort of taking pictures, uploading them, and then posting them, I want each photo posted to be as good as I can make it, to the very best of my ability. I know I still have a lot to learn as far as photography and sewing goes, but I've already made huge strides since my first doll gowns and photos. And I can only get better the more pics I take and the more clothes I sew. :D

justkatie179

06-01-2010, 09:33 PM

I guess it's just up to the individual. Myself, I love beautiful period dresses and clothes for my dolls. BUT, I have a horrible habit of leaving the dolls shoeless. Undoubtably, this makes some people crazy, but it's my doll. Besides, even royalty can kick their shoes off occasionally.

dumbbunneh

06-02-2010, 03:33 AM

Hehe, I'm pretty bad about shoes too. I've been waiting to have more of a wardrobe for my dolly before I start buying shoes and currently only have one pair. xD

toshirodragon

06-02-2010, 03:40 AM

I bought shoes like crazy when I first got into the hobby, but I've discovered that I put my favorites on the guys and they just seem to keep them on all the time. :sweat

AmyAngel

06-02-2010, 07:03 PM

I have more shoes than dolls, and have from the beginning! I LOVE doll shoes... love them. I'll buy shoes I know none of my dolls would wear if the price is good and I love them enough. And then someone always shows up to wear them. Most of the boys only wear one pair all the time, but the girls switch out often. They look more "finished" with shoes, assuming the character wears shoes and they're not in a situation where they would normally be barefoot.

Wolfmammy

06-08-2010, 04:50 PM

I don't think it's anyone's business to tell someone that their doll isn't up to standard.

Personally, I shun the mainstream as much as possible. I don't want my dolls to ever look like anyone else's which is why I paint, sew for and wig them myself. I've seen botched faceups with highrgrade materials and masterpieces done with low-grade. It all depends on the artist's skill level. It's not about people being 'stingy' with their money! It's about people wanting to make their dolls unique and wanting to learn it all themselves. Would you pay to have your dolls sent off to a photographer with more skill than you?

I would rather encourage a beginner to DIY than urge them to pay someone else to do something they can learn. To me, this hobby isn't about 'buying art' it's about creating it.

lolkat

06-08-2010, 09:30 PM

I wonder what you mean by sloppy? If you mean done by the owner herself, and not to standards of factory perfection - then I will take a doll, painted by someone just learning, in clothes they have made themselves with painful labour and mistakes, any time over yet another bland "beautiful" doll with a factory or big name faceup and yet another Dollheart outfit.
I don't think it's such a black and white issue. Obviously, not all owner faceups and outfits can be called sloppy and IMO factory faceups aren't often that good anyway. Saying that some photos would have benefitted from more effort being taken isn't an attack on all owner-done work. I've never equated sloppy with imperfect. Imperfections can even be charming and are open to interpretation (I like unfinished hems on some garments, others don't), imperfections don't necessarilly have anything to do with the amount of effort put in. Sloppy is showing a lack of care and effort.
And there are some people who would rather buy everything done for them- especially people new to the hobby because they aren't confident in their skills enough to jump right in.

Personally I've not made my dolls any clothes yet because I haven't had the time or resources. I'm skint and jobless at the moment so I don't even look at most of the expensive fullsets. Luckilly most of them aren't to my tastes so I tend to mix and match items and build up outfits as I go along.
I do my own faceups because I enjoy doing it and I don't want to risk paying for a company faceup incase I don't like it. My skill level isn't amazing but compared to other dolls I've seen at a meet I'm not horrific either.
I only post the best pics of each shoot and I try to make the most of my limited space to set up attractive scenes which show the dolls at their best.

Saraqael2000

06-09-2010, 05:31 AM

Everyone has different taste in what they consider to be pretty vs. messy. It also goes without saying that collectors in this hobby are going to have wildly different skill levels in using a camera. Not everyone is going to be able to artfully set up and pose their dolls. I don't consider that this to be a big deal.

Baakay

06-19-2010, 03:01 PM

annnnd now you know why I don't do much photography of mine. :) (aside from sheer laziness, that is!).

I am a terrifically bad photographer and probably always will be. I try hard, and once in a while I luck out and get a fabulous combination of lighting and subject but usually it looks "quick and dirty" even if it's not meant to be. That's ok, I don't care. Much. But I also don't care to get ripped up for doing my best, and I know it'll happen.

About clothes and wigs and all - keep in mind as well that people's eye for what works and what doesn't changes over time. I still run across the very sad picture of my first faceup once in awhile and shudder. And I was so happy about that thing! Hideous. But it takes a long while to come up to speed on techniques and so forth, and even then some of us will never develop the skill to execute what we know should work, well enough to make it look awesome.

So my theory on it is that I enjoy what I have, do the best I can to make them look the way I want and hope everyone else gives me the same grain of salt I give them. :)

TheParadisePanda

06-20-2010, 08:58 PM

Wolfmammy

07-06-2010, 12:39 AM

I pretty much just don't post pics of my dolls anywhere EVER. The sad truth is i'm just poor, I make minimum wage and my hours are constantly fluctuating. My dolls are cheap and so are their clothing. I know if I were to post my dolls photos many places they would just be "more cheap ugly dolls with crappy clothing and faceups" so I just avoid posting them.

I like my dolls myself, I mean i really do and when i first came into this hobby i was so excited to find that there were dolls priced to be affordable to people like me. I now realize that even if I buy the best clothing and wigs I can manage for my dolls it will still be eye poison/sloppy to some.

In A way I almost admire those who are brave enough to post photos of their dolls regardless of what others think. They have more back bone then I do :sweat

Having a backbone normally comes from being pushed around and beaten down at one time or another and finally having enough of it.

No one should ever be afraid of posting pix of their dolls because of a bunch of judgmental fascists. The point of your doll is to make *you* happy and %$^$ what anyone else thinks. :kisses

It really chaps me sometimes that a bunch of bullies can come along even on a doll forum and make people afraid to post their creations because they think 'certain kinds' of things look ugly or bad on a doll. 'Saying without saying' is still insulting people whether you own up to it or not. Everyone who thinks people who can't take top grade pix of their dolls should never post any pix or who judges someone else's dolls on anything, can stuff it! :angry

Foxxian

07-06-2010, 12:55 AM

I dont quite get what the big deal is with this.. Iv seen quite a few raggedly looking BJDs, but there is usually a reason for them.. Iv also seen alot of dolls with face-ups that make me raise my brows and go "what...?" But I never say anything because I recall my manners, and remember that timeless saying "if you have nothing nice to say, then dont say anything at all." and just shrug it off, to each their own and no one has the right or reason to be mean to someone else just because they dont like how another person's doll looks.

Iv been guilty of owning a raggedy looking doll.. My doll Rail for the longest time was pretty aweful looking...x.x I have no talent for painting on 3D surfaces.. so he had a horrible face-up for a long time. But I did my best, and still posted pictures of him. Last year though I recently came across a talented artist who took trades. I had two useless multi-heads from FL that I wasnt using, and had no plans to use, and so traded them for a face-up. It only cost me ten dollars in shipping, and he is now beautiful. ^^

So anyway.. A raggedly looking doll could look aweful to someone one day, and then beautiful the next. Although I do see alot of dolls that arent my taste, but everyone else seems to think they are lovely. It is odd sometimes, but that is just one of those shrugging moments. Just different tastes is all.

And.. Iv rambled long enough...x.x

Taco

07-08-2010, 06:35 PM

I like my dolls myself, I mean i really do and when i first came into this hobby i was so excited to find that there were dolls priced to be affordable to people like me. I now realize that even if I buy the best clothing and wigs I can manage for my dolls it will still be eye poison/sloppy to some.

In A way I almost admire those who are brave enough to post photos of their dolls regardless of what others think. They have more back bone then I do :sweat

If you like your dolls, then that's all that really matters. This hobby does tend to include a lot of sharing with the community which can be great, but it can also skew perspectives as well -- people forget how much is in the eye of the beholder and that the only opinion that really counts is that of the owner. Not everyone is going to love every doll, or the way other people style their dolls but that's ok -- they can go look at something else.

Also, inexpensive dolls can look great too, and not everything has to cost an arm and a leg to make a nice picture. A lot of getting dolls to look the way you want them to simply comes with practice (something that I could use more of when it comes to photography, lol).

MosaicWolf

07-08-2010, 08:27 PM

Okay, some things to keep in mind in this thread.

A) Posting photos on a forum is sharing in a public medium. This does, by definition, open your work up to the judgment and criticism of others. Every artist must accept this as the price of admission of sharing their work. Not everyone will like your work, and some may have strong negative reactions to it. In fact, there are artists that consider their art successful simply because it provoked a reaction regardless of whether it was positive or negative.

Ask yourself whether you own dolls to be petted and congratulated or if you keep them for your own satisfaction and enjoyment?

B) Some people choose to keep their dolls 'raggedy,' some people don't. Everyone has a right to make that choice. I commission $100+ faceups for my dolls, put them in $50 urethane eyes and have a serious Dollheart addiction. My choices are no less valid, creative or authentic than the person who does everything themselves. They are still completely my dolls, with their minute details determined by my vision. I simply choose to expend my time and talent earning the money to keep the little resin hellions in their shinies. Trying to do it myself is not worth the aggravation and impacts my enjoyment of my dolls.

I just recently took a whole slew of pictures of my dolls, and I have enjoyed sharing them. But it's probably the first time in ages that I've had pics of the majority of my collection. That's because they're mine, and I share them when I want to, but the rest of the time I am more than content to keep them all to myself like a jealous queen dragon. I don't care what the hobby at large thinks, as long as they make me happy, that's all that matters.

If your dolls make you happy, own that. Don't wait for me or anyone else to validate it for you.

MidnightPariah

07-09-2010, 12:49 AM

Mosaic Wolf hit the nail on the head I think. I've seen some people bash others for dressing their dolls in expensive clothing, having a messy wig, or dressing their dolls in "cheap" clothing. It is all about your opinion in the end.

Seeing a raggedy doll doesn't bother me as much as seeing someone post pictures of their dolls in a dirty environment. I have an obsession with things being neat and clean (think Monica from Friends) and when I see someone's doll lying in dirt it just grosses me out and makes me wonder why the person doesn't find a clean area and take their pictures there.

toshirodragon

07-09-2010, 12:55 AM

Better stay out of my threads then... my boys go everywhere. Including dirt and water, my stories exist in the real world not some shiny pristine fantasy world.

Karie Chaos

07-09-2010, 01:04 AM

I don't think I've SEEN any BJD's that looked truely unkempt to me, but hey, I grew up in the 90's as a kid and teen and my late teens have been spent in the early 2000's, so I grew up on people wearing what I consider crap being 'the thing'. What do I know? Honestly, if I don't like it, I won't comment, or I just won't look. Personally, the focus for me is the dolls, and not the environment, so I don't care if they took it on their computer desk and used a spindle of disk's as a chair. It works, it works. I take my dolls photos on my bed, or on my floor with one of my blankets draped over the stuff in my room.

I dress my dolls in things I make myself because I can't afford or can't find things in the style they'd wear from companies. I do my best to make them look neat, but some things I want to look 'ragged' such as shorts that are supposed to look 'cut-off'. I just don't finish the edges of them, sometimes I fray them a little extra with the edge of the scissors. So what if someone see's that frayed edge and says that it's ragged and should be fixed. They're done, I skip on.

Too many people focus on the silliest things sometimes. I've seen some awesome photo shoots done by some people with fabulous dolls that they play with when the kids and hubbins are gone. And someone has to come along and go "But that (something here) in the background is dusty! You should clean your settings more." -_-; Why are you nitpicking the house? Pay attention to the dolls! The dolls are posing beautifully, who cares about something in the way far background that no one else has seen until you rudely pointed it out? Fine, it bugs you, but not everyone has time to clean constantly, between kids, work, pets and a million other things they do.

But hey, what do I know? Maybe that's the important thing. I dunno. I was reading the story for the dolls.

MidnightPariah

07-09-2010, 01:08 AM

Better stay out of my threads then... my boys go everywhere. Including dirt and water, my stories exist in the real world not some shiny pristine fantasy world.

Who sad anything about a "pristine fantasy world"? I grew up in backhills West Virginia where my family was the opposite of wealthy. I've worked extremely hard for everything that I own with no help from my family. I was taught to take care of my belongings and treat them with respect. You can throw your dolls in filth if you want. That is your prerogative. My opinion is my opinion.

Oh, there is a difference between having your dolls outdoors in the water and dirt than having a filthy house caked with years of grime. If your dolls are in the latter, then no thank you.

EveningBreeze

07-20-2010, 03:45 PM

"But that (something here) in the background is dusty! You should clean your settings more." -_-; Why are you nitpicking the house? Pay attention to the dolls! The dolls are posing beautifully, who cares about something in the way far background that no one else has seen until you rudely pointed it out? Fine, it bugs you, but not everyone has time to clean constantly, between kids, work, pets and a million other things they do.

A fine layer of dust is not a problem with me. It's when that dust seems to have grown into a sweater over time and has taken over an entire living space. Coming from a family where my father was in the Army, we have a totally different standard of clean from most. We also were brought up to respect ourselves, our family and our belongings by taking care of them.

"It's easier to keep up than to clean up" is a saying we were brought up with. It's true, once you've cleaned something thoroughly, it's easy to just come back once or twice a week to make sure it stays clean. "If you have time to lean, you have time to clean" is another one we grew up hearing a lot. It translates to me that if you have time to sew doll clothing, do extensive photo stories and post online then you do have time to clean.

MidnightPariah

07-21-2010, 12:37 AM

if you have time to sew doll clothing, do extensive photo stories and post online then you do have time to clean

I agree with you 100%! When looking at a photo, I look at everything. I assume that the person intended the background to be looked at otherwise why would they have taken the photo in that location?

Let me put this in another way: Say I invite you to my house for dinner. I cook this wonderfully delicious meal and it smells and looks great. When I direct you to your seat at the table, you notice that right next to you on the floor is an open cat box. You notice the cat box and get a strange look on your face. I ask you what is wrong and you inform me that the litter box is a bit off putting. I then get angry at you and tell you that you should be focusing on the meal I cooked, for that is the purpose of your visit and not the smelly cat mess next to you.

Do you see how this can work? When you take a picture of you doll in a filthy mess, it takes away the aesthetic appeal that the doll may have held. Just like a cat box next to your seat at dinner takes away the pleasure of the dinner itself.

toshirodragon

07-21-2010, 12:42 AM

Well it is my cat's house...

MidnightPariah

07-21-2010, 12:48 AM

Well it is my cat's house...

And...? That like me saying, "Hey this is my dog's house. He can come up and pee on your leg if he wants and you, my guest, have to deal with it." :whome

I'm not saying that the cat can't have it's box. I'm saying that it isn't a polite practice to put it next to your guest's seat during dinner. Just as it is not pleasing to the eye when someone plops their $800 doll in a filthy environment.

toshirodragon

07-21-2010, 12:52 AM

Oh yes 800 dollar doll

The old snob appeal...

MidnightPariah

07-21-2010, 12:55 AM

Oh yes 800 dollar doll

The old snob appeal...

What? This makes no sense. If you cannot argue the topic at hand without resorting to name-calling, then why post? No one is insulting you, so why do you feel the need to insult others.

xblackravenx

07-21-2010, 01:10 AM

Maybe because it sounded as though you're implying a doll has to cost $800 for it to be unpleasant when in a filthy environment, whereas if it costs less than that it's fine ?
The statement would have made just as much impact had you not given a price.

As for the topic.....People can do what they want with their dolls. If they want to dress them in rags, take photos of them in untidy environments whatever. Maybe it's the look of their doll ?
It's like the gore mods out there. "Oh why spend XXX on a doll and do that to it ?" Because it's what they want to do with it.

EDIT : And then you have to factor in all the work that they themselves have put into to doll. Anyone can buy a doll, get the default faceup, buy a pretty outfit from the site a plonk it infront of a white background. (Which is what I do, I know my first faceup attempt s gonna suck, but I'll still want to take pictures of it to show.) I like that some dolls look less "proffessional" (I really can't think of an appropriate word here.....) because it shows that the owner is doing things with their doll, wether that be a faceup that isn't to a "company standard" or clothes that they haven't quite gotten the pattern right for.
Just because some people think it looks "raggedy" doesn't mean they don't appreciate how much the doll cost.

MidnightPariah

07-21-2010, 01:41 AM

Bluehairfreak

07-21-2010, 02:48 AM

I apologize if that statement came across as snobbish for it was an example rather than a statement of my doll preferances. I have dolls ranging in price from $140 to $1200 and I love them all equally. Let me then restate myself. I don't want to see any doll in a fithy environment. Faceup, clothing choice, sculpt, etc. don't matter if you plop your doll in a dirty kitchen or bathroom.

Agreed, it seems so silly to be take pictures showing off anything without caring about or thinking about the surrounding area. If you're showing off the doll, surely that would indicate some level of pride in the doll, so why not extend the same pride and care to the rest of area shown in the photo.

EveningBreeze

07-21-2010, 05:11 AM

A doll is a doll. I would want my $90 Resin Soul/BBB girl to look as nice aesthetically as my $500 Volks Yo-sd because in the end, they are both my dolls and it makes me happy to have nice looking dolls.

Honestly, you are not going to get positive reaction for a doll with wonky placed eyes, a face up that looks like it was done with a melted Crayola pallete and a wig that looks like it's able to spring to life and steal the souls of the innocent at any given second. This is what I think of when someone says "raggedy doll " to me.

It's the internet, you are going to be judged on the things you willingly post here to complete strangers. One would be led to believe that impressions are long lasting and it's difficult to change the minds of the masses when all they see is filth and poorly kept belongings in the photographs you post.

s0yuz

07-21-2010, 06:07 AM

It may come as a shock to some, but some people do NOT buy their BJDs with the aim of other peoples' approval.

And if someone does and their self-esteem lives and dies on the adulation or lack thereof from total strangers, they should seek professional help.

MidnightPariah

07-21-2010, 06:33 AM

It may come as a shock to some, but some people do NOT buy their BJDs with the aim of other peoples' approval.

No, but that is why they post their pictures on the internet for the world to see. Humans have a psychological need to gain the approval of their peers. People post pictures of their dolls online because they want people to complement their dolls.

s0yuz

07-21-2010, 06:42 AM

No, but that is why they post their pictures on the internet for the world to see. Humans have a psychological nature to gain the approval of their peers. People post pictures of their dolls online because they want people to complement their dolls.

You apparently think you speak for "everybody."

I post pictures to share with the people I consider friends. You are nothing.

Bluehairfreak

07-21-2010, 06:57 AM

It doesn't really matter why some-one is buying dolls or posting pictures, or who you're posting the pictures for. As soon as it's posted it is open to criticism and judgment, from anyone who has access to see them. You can't simply say "It's not FOR you" and expect people to not comment. If you don't care about approval or adoration then why would negative comments bother you?

MidnightPariah

07-21-2010, 07:17 AM

You apparently think you speak for "everybody."

I post pictures to share with the people I consider friends. You are nothing.

Then when posting on a public forum be prepared for some criticism. Not everyone is going to like every doll.

Foxxian

07-21-2010, 07:53 AM

The bickering in here is getting rediculous... If you all want to act like nitpicking little school girls, then take it to den of demons. My goodness.

Its a simple thing to NOT look at dolls you do not like, or the things in the background of some photographs. Its just as easy to bite your tongue when it comes to telling someone that they have "raggedy" dolls. Whether you like them or not is really irrelevant, when it was your choice to look at the pictures to begin with. They arent yours, and how someone wants to have their dolls isnt anyones buisness.

My gosh.. People need to grow up. Just because you look at something, dont like what you see, doesnt mean you /have/ to comment.

Bluehairfreak

07-21-2010, 09:19 AM

The bickering is kinda pointless as we're all just talking in general terms about things we've seen. I haven't noticed anyone naming names or saying this person dolls are ugly.
*shrugs* In any case I think the topic has veer away from the OP's original intent about people discussing their own choices about their dolls and not speculating on other people's motivations.

For me, I prefer my dolls to look neat and clean. I don't typically post pictures I take, simply because I'm not happy with how the pictures came out(focus isn't right, or the composition didn't turn out) Outside of sharing them with friends via aim, or filtered on my livejournal. The best tend to end up on my deviantart account.

The exceptions would be pictures I'm particularly proud of, or I'm looking for some critique in order to improve.

Karhys

07-21-2010, 09:53 AM

Okay guys, I realise this is apparently a touchy topic for some, but from here on I would ask that directed insults and name-calling be left out of the thread.

The general topic of the thread itself is fine, and we're more than happy for you guys to have heated debate -- it gives everyone a chance to consider the argument from different viewpoints they may not have already considered.

However, just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are trying to smash your world view or tell you how to live your life.

From now on please refrain from resorting to insults as an attempt to get your point across. We're all adults here, I assume we can act in a mature fashion.

Thank you for your cooperation. :)

EveningBreeze

07-21-2010, 02:42 PM

People need to grow up. Just because you look at something, dont like what you see, doesnt mean you /have/ to comment.

No, but if you wanted to avoid any criticism or negative comments completely then why post in a free forum where everyone is given the opportunity to do so? You can't have both sides of the bed, so to speak. We are adults and we should be able to take the good with the bad without throwing childish temper tantrums because someone decided to call the doll FUG or laugh because of something odd in the pcture's background.

The reason people post is to share their dolls with everyone who is able to click on that thread title. So, the argument that " These photos aren't FOR you" is dead as the photos are for everyone who takes the time to look at them.

Taco

07-21-2010, 03:16 PM

No, but if you wanted to avoid any criticism or negative comments completely then why post in a free forum where everyone is given the opportunity to do so? You can't have both sides of the bed, so to speak. We are adults and we should be able to take the good with the bad without throwing childish temper tantrums because someone decided to call the doll FUG or laugh because of something odd in the pcture's background.

The reason people post is to share their dolls with everyone who is able to click on that thread title. So, the argument that " These photos aren't FOR you" is dead as the photos are for everyone who takes the time to look at them.

Hmmm... it's true that there isn't really privacy on the internet and you can't necessarily control who sees what pictures. However, there is a question of intended audience. Some folks are putting pics out there with the intent of getting comments from lots of people, while others are more interested in sharing with friends. Sometimes posting on forums is the easiest way to do that. Of course that doesn't mean that only friends will see it, but wanting to share with friends is a valid reason for posting pics. Not everybody posts things with the idea that they're trying to reach or please the broadest audience possible.

The safest thing to do is not share at all, but then, it's a hobby largely built around sharing at least to an extent. People are excited about their dolls after all. My question would be why leave negative comments/critiques if they aren't asked for? People shouldn't flip out everytime someone is less than complimentary, but at the same time the adults you mention should be able to conduct themselves in a way that is not rude when viewing and commenting on photos. Sometimes the best thing to do is let people have their fun and enjoy their dolls and keep the criticism to yourself (general you) unless asked for.

It's one thing if someone asks for feedback -- at that point they have no room to complain if someone is less than positive about their work, but not everybody posts pictures for that purpose. This is a hobby--something done for fun, not art school, not a job -- it's okay for things to not be perfect.

Some people like to hone their skills and post pictures that are works of art in their own right, others just want to share with their on-line doll friends. Neither is right or wrong, but you can't assume that everybody has the same mindset when it comes to posting pics.

For me personally, whether or not stuff is distracting in a photo depends on the purpose of the photo. Is it just to show the posability of the doll or something like the doll's outfit? Or is this part of a photostory? I'm admittedly more picky about photostories, just because for myself too many distractions keep me from being able to lose myself in the story and world. However, that's just me, and people can create their photostories where ever and however they want--it's not my place to jump in and dictate otherwise.

s0yuz

07-21-2010, 05:37 PM

What some folks here utterly fail to understand is a simple matter of RESPECT.

You (and I mean this as a general and personal "you") a BJD owner or someone who likes BJDs. And you've probably tried to share your likes with someone who isn't into BJDs. Have you ever gotten comments about how "creepy" and "ugly" or "weird" your dolls are? Have you felt annoyed or offended by that? Why?

The reason why is because that person is trampling over your personal bond with your doll and trivializing it.

Same issue with "raggedy" BJDs. Someone loves that doll. That doll may mean a great deal to someone on an emotional level. So what if the enviroment or the doll itself isn't something out of a fashion shoot? What matters is that emotional connection between owner and doll. That doll is loved. A random stranger coming in and making nasty remarks is insulting and trivializing that bond and demonstrates a lack of respect and empathy.

If you want to see this in action, please go to any public area and criticize a random person's prized personal possessions and come back and tell us about your experience.

MosaicWolf

07-21-2010, 06:03 PM

Bluehairfreak

07-21-2010, 07:09 PM

S0yuz, so is even thinking negative things disrespectful? Because again I haven't seen anyone pointing fingers and naming names of this person has ugly dolls, or has a disgusting house. If some-one post pictures of dolls sitting in dust on a counter, pile of dirty dishes and visible bugs behind them, is it some-how evil to look and think "Ugh, why would they post something like THAT!" Note they're not commenting directly to the person saying "OMG your place is so nasty" or anything else. I don't see how discussing the habit some doll owners have of being sloppy with their dolls' surroundings is some-how rude and disrespectful.

Now as for why the surrounding and background can be just as important as the doll posing, lighting and focusing. Have you heard of the trend of photobombing? It's were people sneak into the background of photos and so silly things often distracting from the focus of the photo. Probably arising from the fact that silly background events can happen naturally when taking photos. But the point is background items and events can distract from the main focus of a pictures and a decent photographer will attempt to reduce the potential distractions, either by clearing the area or by composing the shot to hide them. Some-one leaving a mess in then background of their photos are leaving enough potential photobombs to call it a photominefield.

Taco

07-21-2010, 07:20 PM

I'm sorry, I fail to see how asking for a certain level of respect both for the viewer and fellow doll collectors is disrespectful. I, for one, would be very disappointed to think that a non-collector's first/only impression of our hobby and the people in it consisted of some of the photos being discussed in this thread.

Ah, see, I wouldn't take poor/messy pictures as a sign of disrespect towards anyone. It might not be what I want to see, but it's not a big deal. I can always go look at something else. I would also hate for new people's opinions of the hobby be skewed, because some of the posts here and other places make them too afraid to post anything for fear of not being good enough (whatever that is).

There are lots of things about the hobby that can be misconstrued by outsiders (this issue here is probably one of the lesser ones), but the same is true about a lot of hobbies. It's not something we really ever have control over.

There may be people in this world with deep and satisfying personal relationships with their dumpsters, but that does not mean I am in any way required to enjoy, condone or refrain from forming my own opinions about them.

It's not having the opinions that's the issue, but rather whether they should be voiced, and if so, how. No one's required to enjoy anything or like the same stuff, but considering that the internet comes equipped with a back button I don't see why it matters.

I don't think anyone at any point in this thread has suggested that all doll photos should look like a fashion shoot. However, why shouldn't we hold ourselves to a higher standard as a group? Taking five minutes to clean a photo area of dirt and debris isn't exactly a monumental task. It's a matter of taking pride in oneself, one's surroundings and the important items in them.

There are no specific group standards (who would decide standards anyway?) to hold anybody to, and I'm not so sure there should be. It's a pretty individual hobby in that sense--it's up to each person to determine what they're comfortable with and what are priorities for them. Plus you have people at all different experience levels, and that should also be taken into account. I don't think cleaning up is a monumental task, and I personally prefer to find a neat area to take pics in, but it's not really anybody's business as it does no harm. Deciding you don't like a pic and moving along isn't much of an imposition.

I think rather than jump on folks for not having a high enough standard of pictures, it's perhaps more constructive to encourage those owners who's work you really like. I like DoA's new Gallery + as it pulls out those shoots that do a really good job for the folks that want to see higher caliber stuff without wading through umpteen numbers of gallery posts. Yet, other people's picture posts aren't being put down, either.

EveningBreeze

07-21-2010, 09:28 PM

Mutual respect seems more appropriate, but honestly, with the anonymity the internet provides us as users, I doubt you will find that everyone is respectful and polite... or filled with the love of fluffy rainbow kitten cuddles. lol

On most forums it's TOS and the rules that make the community and it's users adhere to a set standard when it comes to interaction/comment leaving for others. How nice and sweet would these forums really be if suddenly the rules were abandoned and you could say whatever you wanted without fear of being banned?

While I don't have to leave a comment, I certainly am allowed to form my own opinion of the post. I don't leave snarky comments or criticize the O.P. but I do freely express my feelings when asked and on the appropriate forums. :damnit

Taco, I don't have an answer for you. If I don't like what I see posted in a thread, I simply click the back button and go forward onto other postings.