Luts Zuzu kitty and Pipos kitty

[Merle]

Just today Pipos now has shown their new Christmas kitties and their new basic black kitty. December 1st (tonite here on the East Coast of the USA) Luts is selling their Zuzu kitties I notice that both of them will now have tails.

Do you like one better than the other and why? I already have a white basic Baha so I want a black basic Baha. But the Zuzu kitties are adorable too. I didn't really look at the specs to see how much size difference there is but I sure do like these new kitties that are going to be on sale today.

I wonder if I can get a tail for my current Baha so the two match--I'll have to find out from my dealer.

[KarenVail]

I'm actually a little worried about the new tails.. they look fragile. I'm going to be afraid it will break!

[Merle]

I hadn't even considered that aspect. I do know it will make dressing them a little different. But they look so cute with them! I may re-think this if you can order one without a tail, or just remove it if that's possible too.

Just checked the Pipos site and you can order with a short, long or no tail at all. I think you've made me think I'd want no tail. Here's the link to the new black kitty.

http://piposland.com/shop/step1.php?number=634

[mk13]

hmm, if you look at them both closely it seems the Zuzu's have a magnetic tail and Pipos have a jointed tail.
I would prefer magnetic I think, you wouldn't need to cut a whole in their pants :)

[BunnyChan]

I like Pipos more..That and Luts isnt doing themselves any favors by being greedy money hungry copycats and spitting out their own version of whatever everybody else is...with little to no consideration for what fans of the company want, or have been waiting for for a long time.

[NightWatch]

Considering that all except one of the Zuzus were sold out within a few hours and how much I've been hearing people express their love for the designs, I think Luts will probably consider this run to be a great big favour to themselves.

When I first heard that Luts was releasing cat-dolls, I wasn't very impressed. It isn't a new idea and it seems like the 1/6 delfs will never see light after all. However, after seeing the Zuzu releases, I have to give credit where it's due. Luts have actually gone the distance by making the Zuzus a rather different style from Pipos' Bahas. I have to admit that I really like the Zuzu design, possibly because they're more stylized.

While I still want the 1/6 delfs to be released, I'm realistic enough to expect that Luts as a company will produce whatever they believe will sell. I would like to clamor about what I as a customer want from them, but I have to admit that an awful lot of customers seem to want what they've been producing lately.

[Karhys]

I have to say that Luts sure have made me seriously want to give a lot of money to Pipos. :p

Pipos were really creative and innovative when they joined the BJD scene, and did something totally different to what everyone else was doing, without knowing whether it would work or not, and I give them major props for that. Luts are just being copycats and I don't give them any props for that at all. While I was previously mulling over whether I wanted a Pipos doll or not (more of a "do I really need another doll" kind of thing) I totally want to actively give them money now and support them. So I'm totally getting a Pipos doll when I get a bit more financially stable. :p

I realise there's a lot of give and take in any sort of scene like this, and everyone looks at what everyone else is doing and evolves ideas from that to a degree... but I don't appreciate direct ripoffs. That's a personal line of thinking that I apply to everything, though (not just dolls) and I don't expect everyone to hold to it, nor do I hold anyone else to it. (ie, I do think the Luts cats are cute and will squee over other people's.) But I personally don't appreciate a company for doing it and certainly won't respect them in the same way.

[NightWatch]

When people use the words 'direct ripoffs' and 'copycats' I keep thinking that they're accusing Luts of being plagiarists or that they're recasting dolls. I know they're not saying that from the context of what's written, but these words do remind me more so of plagiarism and recasts than what Luts (and other companies) is doing, which is following the trend.

I have to admit that I'm not as gung-ho against Luts for using a concept another company came up with. Same as how I'm not gung-ho against all the companies that have thrown out 70cm dolls since Dollshe and all the Tinies that have made the scene after the Yo-SDs exploded in popularity. Same as how I don't feel like I need to go buy Pipos dolls after Dollzone released their Bunny and Fox doll and after Elfdoll released their Pig.

To me...it's just following a trend, something that most businesses are prone to doing. If we're going to talk about a lack of creativity, let's be honest. Other than Pipos, Petdolls and Domadoll, can we say that the other companies have all been revolutionary and amazingly unique with coming up with new designs? I think not. I'm very sure that Pipos themselves expected other cat/bunny/etc dolls to be released after theirs made it big. That's the way businesses work. They'll work harder to come up with something new and other companies will work harder to further this concept or even improve on it. To expect otherwise is just...not how businesses work. And not how the doll world works either.

[Karhys]

Well, that's why I said that what I think is something that's for me personally and why I don't hold other people to it at all. To me, the Luts dolls are copycat and direct ripoff dolls; they fit that by my personal definition. While I reserve a special place in my hatred zone for those that recast dolls and I'm certainly not putting Luts there, I still find this behaviour very disappointing and ultimately it changes my opinion of them.

Knowing that "that's how things work" and having to like it are two entirely different things. I know that that's how things are, not just in dolls, but in many businesses. Someone comes up with an innovative idea, and when it does indeed prove successful, everyone rips it off. But I don't like that, and I don't think it's right, regardless of it being how it is. So you'll find that in pretty much all walks of life, I do my best to avoid supporting the copycats. I apply that to my doll collecting too, which is why the number of companies I've bought from is ultimately very limited.

But as I said, this is my own personal take on things and I don't expect other people to adhere to it. (And ultimately as someone said, judging from the Zuzu popularity, plenty of people don't - which is fine.) I do find it interesting to discuss though. :)

[NightWatch]

Heh. That's why I said 'I keep thinking'. I'm not saying that everyone has to or will think like I do. But I am saying those words make me think that's what is being meant, if I did not read the entire paragraph for the context rather than the meaning of the words alone. It was an expression of my opinion rather than a demand for it to be stopped.

Soooo...since we're having this discussion. I am curious to know if you (and BunnyChan and anyone else who shares the same opinion) view Dollzone and Elfdolls as copycats too. What about those who produced 70cm dolls? It's all the rage now but a few years back, there really was no doll that large. I also thought the changeable ears on dolls (either Lovelyhouse or Dolkot came out with it first) was one of the smartest ideas that was produced. Do you feel the same against Volks who adopted the idea later on? I really could go on. I ask all these because I'm just really curious to where everyone draws the line when it comes to such matters (if they're offended by such matters).

[BunnyChan]

Well, that's why I said that what I think is something that's for me personally and why I don't hold other people to it at all. To me, the Luts dolls are copycat and direct ripoff dolls; they fit that by my personal definition. While I reserve a special place in my hatred zone for those that recast dolls and I'm certainly not putting Luts there, I still find this behaviour very disappointing and ultimately it changes my opinion of them.

Knowing that "that's how things work" and having to like it are two entirely different things. I know that that's how things are, not just in dolls, but in many businesses. Someone comes up with an innovative idea, and when it does indeed prove successful, everyone rips it off. But I don't like that, and I don't think it's right, regardless of it being how it is. So you'll find that in pretty much all walks of life, I do my best to avoid supporting the copycats. I apply that to my doll collecting too, which is why the number of companies I've bought from is ultimately very limited.

But as I said, this is my own personal take on things and I don't expect other people to adhere to it. (And ultimately as someone said, judging from the Zuzu popularity, plenty of people don't - which is fine.) I do find it interesting to discuss though. :)
I agree with this WHOLE thing 100%. I couldnt say it any better or clearer if I tried :)



I just thought it really sucked that Pipos released cats and then suddenly luts is like "HEY LOOK! WE HAVE CATS TOO! LOTS OF CATS! COME SEE OUR CATS!"

How odd that after it was proven that CAT dolls sold so well..Luts went off and released the same animal, in the same general style.

IMO, theres no comparison between human doll trends in this case. Plain and simple, Im personally tired of talking about the trends between human dolls. Its been done, and done and done some more. I've got nothing new to add to any of that.

Pipos cat dolls were unique and stylized enough when they came onto the scene that its just blatantly obvious Luts wanted their idea for themselves. Why didnt they sculpt a dog? Or...a monkey? Or a skunk or something? Why CATS just like the only other cat out there at the time?

[NightWatch]

Sorry, but to me the comparison is still valid. But that's my opinion and when there's no explanation why the comparison shouldn't be valid other than a statement that there is no comparison, it's hard for me to see how that makes sense. In the Dollzone thread, the animal dolls (bunnies by Pipos and bunnies by Dollzone) was debated to death, but when the comparison between human doll trends were brought up, hardly anyone touched on it so I've never actually seen the trend between human dolls talked to death. But since you're tired of talking about the comparisons, there really isn't much to continue as a discussion and I suppose I'll leave off till someone else offers their opinion.

[mk13]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought Catsy was released before Baha. In that sense I see Baha as being a "copy" of Catsy. It seems strange to me that only Pipos doll is being defended when they both seem like copies of an older idea *_*

[BunnyChan]

meh. nvm..changed my mind.

[Maxx]

Of course companies will look at other companies' products and the market reactions, and try to emulate their successes, or the only BJD company around would be Volks. But there is a difference between taking a general concept and putting an original spin on it to make it your own product [which is how Asian BJDs came to be in the first place]. For example, take the case of child-like dolls like tinies, which is a really generic concept. When Volks first came out with Yo-SD, there were some who insinuated that this was a direct take-off Petite Ai [although I'm not sure that can really be proven since Volks did eventually date the conception of Yos] but the two products are different enough in size, appearance, design et al that one wouldn't feel that a Petite and a Yo are exactly interchangeable.

I'm talking about Volks because it's the company I'm most familiar with, but in the case of Catsy and Baha, it's a similar situation. Cat dolls are a very generic concept. way before any of these came out.] But one would never feel a Catsy is interchangeable for a Baha. They are just too disparate in design, size and mechanism. These Luts cat dolls on the other hand, are almost exactly the same as the design concept of Baha. The only differences, whether bodily or facial, are cosmetic. To me, this is an obvious case of cashing in on - or rather, ripping off - someone's intellectual property. Since it's not a direct cast, it is not illegal. But I would prefer to reward companies that at least make an effort to pretend they're not directly ripping off another for the profit.

[Wasn't it Luts who started off as a recast company who did their moulds from Volks heads? I remember this was an issue way back in the ancient lore of BJDdom that I just caught on the tail end as I came into the community. :sweat Any old regulars who can confirm or dispel this? Karhys? :) I'm not saying that this has any bearing on the current situation, but I'd just like to confirm once and for all if my hazy memory is correct.]

[NightWatch]

Interestingly enough, it seems like just the idea of a cat doll makes everything different and that all rules no longer apply to them for some reason. Yo-SDs are different in size, appearance and design from a Petite and is not interchangeable. This then makes the Yo-SD a unique spin of a generic concept.

On the other hand, the Zuzu Delfs are in fact different in size, appearance, design and style from the Baha dolls, but for some reason...it's a rip-off? I doubt you could interchange the Zuzu and Baha parts without it looking incredibly silly. If you put the multitudes of Tinies next to each other, their differences are cosmetic only as well. Same as with the 70 cm dolls. And yet...those are not rip-offs, but when it comes to cat dolls, it becomes a rip-off?

I'm just not seeing the differences between the situations.

[mk13]

I'm sorry but I do not see how Petite Ai/Yo-SD and Baha/Zuzu are different as far as your definition of copy goes.


but the two products are different enough in size, appearance, design et al that one wouldn't feel that a Petite and a Yo are exactly interchangeable.

Yes. Petite ai and Yo-SD as far as I know are the same height, same child like proportions, they can even share the same clothes. What makes them different are their distinctively different facial structures and overall image. I think Petite Ai's have a more western and old style, while Yo-SD are more asian and anime styled. This is the basis for your argument that they are not copying?

In that case I will move on to Catsy and Baha. They both have a cat face and human bodies, both white skin. They are obviously of different age and different size, and look distinctively different as far as the face and style goes. So, ok, they're not copies either.

Now, for Baha and Zuzu. They are nearly the same height, same child like proportions. However, they have distinctively different facial structures and overall image. The Zuzus I think look quite different from the Bahas. They are definitely more stylised and look more cartoony, while the Bahas look more realistic and more cutesy. Furthermore, the Zuzus have each been customised to give distinctive personalities and jobs, a distinctive image that stands out. Baha on the other hand has a more subtle and shy image. Comparing to my above description of Yo-SD and Petite Ai, how are they different? Why are Zuzus more of a copy than Baha?

[Maxx]

Indeed, I find your take on my remarks interesting. :)

1. I happen to think a good number of Tinies are rip-offs, but I'm not going to explicate that point. I would say the same for 70cm dolls.
2. To clarify: 'interchangeable' as applied to feeling derived from different design concepts, rather than in a physical capacity. [Although I am not yet convinced that some of these parts on the Zuzu and Baha couldn't be swapped without, as it were, "looking incredibly silly."]

Possibly if you feel that "the Zuzu Delfs are in fact different in size, appearance, design and style from the Baha dolls," we will not be able to see eye to eye on this issue, because I would not agree with you on at least three if not all of the criteria listed. While I happen to think what might be my opinion on this matter is fact, I have no doubt you do too.

Edit :
mk13 - "They are definitely more stylised and look more cartoony, while the Bahas look more realistic and more cutesy." It is hard for me to see your point of view as I don't agree with this statement. And regarding the "distinctive personalities and jobs, a distinctive image", I believe that has more to do with marketing than the base doll itself.

As for Petite Ai and You-sd, possibly our difference in opinion will also make our views irreconciliable - having experienced both Petite Ai and You-sds in person, I find that the entire body structures are as different as the engineering of bjd and their approximate age group can allow, and I find that they cannot share regular clothes without at best an awkward fit. And yes, I do find that their faces are differently stylised. However, and [i]you would probably find this to be my opinion - I do not feel that the Baha and Zuzu faces are sufficiently differently stylised.

Possibly I should reword my point of view - what I probably meant to say was: "Wow, Luts sure are an...inspired bunch, huh?" :shifty

[Edit Edit : Oops! I just realised that this thread was started in product enthusiasm. Sorry! I didn't mean to be argumentative in a non-argument thread! I'll go away now. :sweat]

[NightWatch]

Well, when it comes to size, it's not a matter of opinion since their measurements do differ. I didn't arbitrarily decide that their sizes are different. I just checked out their measurements. Appearance and design I'm judging based on their naked bodies, as shown here:
http://piposland.com/shop/step1.php?number=569
and
http://eluts.com/frontstore/Item/item_zoom.asp?item_num=3865&catalog_num=0&mart_id=lutsdoll&level=yes&mother_catalog_num=125

Of course, our personal opinions might still differ. Personally, looking at Bahas and Zuzus, I see fairly different designs but of course, with some familiar concepts. When I look at Petite Ais and Yo-SDs, I actually feel the same way. Which is why like Mk13, I find it difficult to understand why the Petite Ai and Yo-SDs situation is somehow different from the Bahas and Zuzus. Based on how Bahas&Zuzus look and your point, the Petite-Ai and Yo-SDs do not differ much more dramatically in size, design or style.

I actually understand your points better since you consider most Tinies and 70cm dolls as rip-offs. That shows more consistency. I raised the question mostly because I don't understand the inconsistency of different principles placed on cat dolls and human dolls. The only inconsistency I find to your point is your take on Yo-SDs and Petite-Ais.


"It sure is nice for Luts that you think so." ~Quoting Mae from memory so that the last part makes sense

Of course, it sure is nice for Baha and Volks that you think as you do. Unfortunately for Luts, I have no intention whatsoever to purchase a Zuzu. I'm merely discussing this for the sake of discussion. And because the inconsistency of doll owners tend to make me ask questions.

[Maxx]

"I didn't arbitrarily decide that their sizes are different." - Neither did I state that you did - when I replied "Possibly if you feel that "the Zuzu Delfs are in fact different in size, appearance, design and style from the Baha dolls," we will not be able to see eye to eye on this issue, because I would not agree with you on at least three if not all of the criteria listed," the possibly-excluded bullet point was size [though I feel from the measurements that they might not be so different in size, without comparison photos, I will not state this as definitive.], though to be fair, I should technically also possibly-exclude half a point for design [such as the waist joint, though I still feel several parts are extremely similar].

"The only inconsistency I find to your point is your take on Yo-SDs and Petite-Ais. " - As I have handled both You-SDs and Petite Ai intimately, I am of the opinion that they are different enough to escape the 'take-off' opinion [an opinion perhaps augmented by the fact that I choose to believe Volks' dating of their You-SD development plans]. So while it is my personal opinion is that the Zuzu kitties are extremely similar to the Baha, my personal opinion is also that Petite Ai and Yo-SD are not as similar [And I really don't want to raise a negative example, so I'll skip that.] and thus I do not feel that my differing opinion on Petite Ai v.s. You-SDs is an inconsistency - or rather, it is not an inconsistency on the terms of my criteria which I am using to judge these dolls and manufacture my opinions.

"Unfortunately for Luts, I have no intention whatsoever to purchase a Zuzu. I'm merely discussing this for the sake of discussion." - To be fair, it is probably still fortunate for Luts that you think as you do - as your arguments in this thread may sway people who were hesitant to purchase a Zuzu because of the possible 'ripping-off' into feeling justified. And unfortunately for Pipos, I have no intention of purchasing a Baha either - I'm just stating my opinion because the Zuzu release grated on me. [But you are quite right about my opinions being fortunate for Volks...:XD]

[Since you're discussing for the sake of discussion, I suppose I don't have to qualify this as argumentative. So I guess it's alright if I reply. :)]

[NightWatch]

"The only inconsistency I find to your point is your take on Yo-SDs and Petite-Ais. " - As I have handled both You-SDs and Petite Ai intimately, I am of the opinion that they are different enough to escape the 'take-off' opinion [an opinion perhaps augmented by the fact that I choose to believe Volks' dating of their You-SD development plans]. So while it is my personal opinion is that the Zuzu kitties are extremely similar to the Baha, my personal opinion is also that Petite Ai and Yo-SD are not as similar [And I really don't want to raise a negative example, so I'll skip that.] and thus I do not feel that my differing opinion on Petite Ai v.s. You-SDs is an inconsistency - or rather, it is not an inconsistency on the terms of my criteria which I am using to judge these dolls and manufacture my opinions.

"Unfortunately for Luts, I have no intention whatsoever to purchase a Zuzu. I'm merely discussing this for the sake of discussion." - To be fair, it is probably still fortunate for Luts that you think as you do - as your arguments in this thread may sway people who were hesitant to purchase a Zuzu because of the possible 'ripping-off' into feeling justified. And unfortunately for Pipos, I have no intention of purchasing a Baha either - I'm just stating my opinion because the Zuzu release grated on me. [But you are quite right about my opinions being fortunate for Volks...:XD]

[Since you're discussing for the sake of discussion, I suppose I don't have to qualify this as argumentative. So I guess it's alright if I reply. :)]

Ah, well. It looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on the differences and similarities then. Using your criteria, I have to admit that in my personal opinion, the Zuzu differs from Baha the way that Yo-SD differs from Petite Ai. One more point though...since you qualify that having handled Yo-SDs and Petite Ai, you feel you can judge them based on your criteria, isn't it somewhat inconsistent to judge Bahas and Zuzus before you've held the both of them in hand?

Heh. In the same terms then, it's fortunate that Pipos has Karhys, Bunnychan and you to strongly defend the opinion that Luts are ripping off from Pipos and express disgust at this 'ripping off', thus possibly causing others to doubt if they do want to buy from Luts. It goes both ways in discussions like this. ^_~

[Maxx]

"...since you qualify that having handled Yo-SDs and Petite Ai, you feel you can judge them based on your criteria, isn't it somewhat inconsistent to judge Bahas and Zuzus before you've held the both of them in hand?" - Ack, looking back, I realise I've conflated two things i was trying to say. :sweat I originally mistook some of the earlier replies to be saying that Petite Ai and You-SDs were not different enough to escape the 'take-off' opinion - but realised later that no one was saying that, and rearranged my argument through c&p...I obviously didn't do that very well. :sweat To clarify what I meant - what I judge with the first-hand experience are the physical qualities that I cannot definitely state for Zuzu and Baha [like size and design], but the criteria that I am currently judging the Zuzu and Baha on concern the ones that are not quantitatively defined and that one states from having only seen visual representation on the screen, the same criteria that I judged You-SD and Petite Ai on originally, before having the first-hand experience that augmented my opinion [a separate point altogether that I left in badly].

Heh. In the same terms then, it's fortunate that Pipos has Karhys, Bunnychan and you to strongly defend the opinion that Luts are ripping off from Pipos and express disgust at this 'ripping off', thus possibly causing others to doubt if they do want to buy from Luts. It goes both ways in discussions like this. ^_~

Yeap, it does - though I do hope that no one actually has existential cat-buying crises from these back-and-forths. :XD

[NightWatch]

what I judge with the first-hand experience are the physical qualities that I cannot definitely state for Zuzu and Baha [like size and design], but the criteria that I am currently judging the Zuzu and Baha on concern the ones that are not quantitatively defined and that one states from having only seen visual representation on the screen, the same criteria that I judged You-SD and Petite Ai on originally, before having the first-hand experience that augmented my opinion [a separate point altogether that I left in badly].


That...was rather confusing (very long sentence there) and I'm not completely sure I got your meaning. So basically you're judging based on style? And that all the other criteria are only applicable when both dolls are in hand? I guess when it comes to 'style', it would be down to personal opinion then. Feel free to clarify but I have to admit that I'm off on a trip so I might miss the clarification though others might benefit from it.

[Stella Maris]

I have to say that Luts sure have made me seriously want to give a lot of money to Pipos. :p

Pipos were really creative and innovative when they joined the BJD scene, and did something totally different to what everyone else was doing, without knowing whether it would work or not, and I give them major props for that. Luts are just being copycats and I don't give them any props for that at all. While I was previously mulling over whether I wanted a Pipos doll or not (more of a "do I really need another doll" kind of thing) I totally want to actively give them money now and support them. So I'm totally getting a Pipos doll when I get a bit more financially stable. :p

I realise there's a lot of give and take in any sort of scene like this, and everyone looks at what everyone else is doing and evolves ideas from that to a degree... but I don't appreciate direct ripoffs. That's a personal line of thinking that I apply to everything, though (not just dolls) and I don't expect everyone to hold to it, nor do I hold anyone else to it. (ie, I do think the Luts cats are cute and will squee over other people's.) But I personally don't appreciate a company for doing it and certainly won't respect them in the same way.
That is so funny. I though I was the only one who had demented ideas like supporting doll companies for ethical reasons! PS getting a black Heero for my mom for xmas

[Taco]

This has turned into an interesting discussion. I feel very ambivelent about Baha vs Zuzu (cat fight!). I feel it's normal for companies to follow trends, however something rubbed me a little the wrong way. I think it was seeing so many kitties lots and lots of kitties, that made it feel like they're jumping on the bandwagon. Elf doll did a pig, someone did dogs (I can't remember who), DZ did do a bunny but they also made a fox and no one else has made a fox, but Luts made lots and lots of kitties. I think if they had released a (as in one) cat and maybe a different animal sculpt as well, or if they had done their cats in a vastly different style, it might have struck me differently. --it just seemed like a flood of cats. I'm not stating whether it was really right or wrong of them to do what they did, this was just my own gut reaction which has no bearing on anyone else.

On the flip side, for people who really like collecting the various animals (or for any cat lovers out there), having different cats by different companies would probably be really nice for them. If BJDs had been around when I was younger, I probably would have gravitated heavily towards the animals. Also, competition encourages innovation and improvements in design.

I've considered buying an animal doll before, but I don't know whether I will or not. If I were to buy a cat, this issue would have little bearing on my decision in the end. Luts' jumping in on trend isn't really nefarious (though I wish they had gone about it a little differently), so I'd just go for whatever sculpt I liked best--and I admit, I do like the Zuzu's tails :)

[mk13]

mk13 - "They are definitely more stylised and look more cartoony, while the Bahas look more realistic and more cutesy." It is hard for me to see your point of view as I don't agree with this statement.

I guess you're right there. I do definitely see differences in the design, and if you cannot then it's just a matter of difference in opinion.


And regarding the "distinctive personalities and jobs, a distinctive image", I believe that has more to do with marketing than the base doll itself.

Yes, of course. But marketing is a big part of promoting a doll's image and reinforcing their style. Otherwise all dolls would be sold naked and unpainted. So then marketing is a part of the style of the doll and making them stand out from another company's.


I presume that in "Why are Zuzus more of a copy than Baha?" you meant "than You-SD?"]

Yeah, I meant that, sorry :sweat



the Zuzu differs from Baha the way that Yo-SD differs from Petite Ai.


Yes, I would agree with this :)


To be honest the Zuzus did make me wince a bit when they were first mentioned. But on the other hand so did the Bahas. My first thought of Baha was: hey...they're kind of copying Casty. But over time they've molded Baha into another unique sculpt, and I can appreciate the effort they've put in. Cats are...cats. All cats look like cats. It is the same with Zuzus. While they are somewhat copying another idea, I believe they have also put enough effort in to make their Zuzus distinctively different from the other cat molds out there. And that's a hard thing to do. Bahas and Zuzus are the same to me =d

[Hobbysue]

I'm sure a lot of companies follow trends in the markets. Luts Zuzu does look like the Pipos Baha to me but as I don't plan on buying either, it doesn't worry me. I prefer the Pipos Bunny anyway and I'm interested in the Fox coming out. I've got 2 Dollzone foxes. The interesting thing that someone mentioned is how much time it takes to sculpt these animals and then get them ready for market. Pipos could well have been working on the fox for the past six months. I was talking to a friend before Xmas how much I'd like to do a corpse bride with a Bobobie Blue skin doll, then I see someone else in Australia put up a Corpse bride with dyed blue skin etc. A lot of people get similar ideas at the same time.

As for human dolls, even Volks is aiming for a touch more realism these days. I thought Elfdoll started the trend for more realistic dolls. Elfdoll dragged me into the hobby, I don't know if I would have started collecting BJDs if Volks were the only dolls out there, even though I like them a lot. As long as the company puts their own artistic interpretation onto what they do, I don't have a problem with them.

PS. Anyone wonder how much the fact that Luts are giving away a free doll is influencing the popularity of the Bahas? I don't mean it nastily, but it's a rare thing for a company to offer a free doll, much less 30 of them and not only the Baha's but the Kid Delfs sold out very rapidly after the offer began. I tend to wonder if you'd liked the Kitty dolls but never got around to buying one whether the chance to win a free doll would push you over the edge? I've always like the SD Annette, but the chance to win a partner to go with her helped push her up to the top of my list.

[zalem]

I don't see Zuzu delfs as ripoffs at all. I reserve that term for people who infringe copyrights. That's clearly not the case here. You cannot copyright an idea. That goes against everything that copyright is about. People are allowed to take ideas and run with them. This leads to more competition and a greater variety of products. Luts is doing their own take on cute little animal dolls. I don't see why Pipos should have a monopoly on cat bjd. *shrugs*

True, Pipos should definitely be given props for being really innovative and creative. But even Pipos took the idea from someone else. They did offer a very different alternative though. And it's also true that Luts should perhaps be focusing on other things before they jump on new ideas, like working on better customer service, fixing Delf resin color problems or other quality issues they've been having lately. Are they lacking originality as far as the idea goes? Sure, but we wouldn't have all the BJD companies we have today if a single company was allowed to monopolize ideas.

In the end, I like both Baha and the Zuzus. Wouldn't mind buying a cute little closed eye Baha and that adorable Florist Zuzu Delf. They are different styles and I appreciate having that choice.

[FunnyLori]

*sigh* I really dislike how every new doll that is released is some how a rip off of another company's idea...

Luts built on a good idea and made it more appealing to a different market, but they aren't the first ones to release a cat doll after Pipos. Buddydoll also has a cat that is remarkably similar to Baha except for the Buddydoll has human feet, better set eyes and wide smile.

[zalem]

I also thought the changeable ears on dolls (either Lovelyhouse or Dolkot came out with it first) was one of the smartest ideas that was produced. Do you feel the same against Volks who adopted the idea later on?

lol. Well there is no rule against necro but I missed this before. Actually, Volks was the first one who did the changeable ears on dolls. The fairy minis (Nasya, Sinsya, Misya), came out long before Dolkot or Lovelyhouse existed. Volks never really did anything with the idea till later though with the release of the new SD/SD13 FCS molds that have the ear parts.

As for more on this topic, Pipos came out with a fox...after DZ already came out with one. Personally I'm glad they did cause I like Pipos fox better. :) I think we're going to see a lot of little animal dolls coming from various companies and many will probably be the same type of animal. But I hope for some real variety and no actual copying. So far that seems to be the case, lets hope it lasts.

[acexkeikai]

well compnies want to still do business. Luts sees there,s an Animal BJD trend so yeah they are going to jump on the bandwagon. More diversity for us I guess. Now t all depends what's your tastes and where you will eventually get your doll.

I'm eyeing either the Heero or the Boa at the moment and I think I like Pipos more than Delf for their custumer service.Luts has been going downhill for me so I am a bit suspicius of them. But if eople like Luts more than Pipos well it's their choice.

I think the Zuzu are cute but... I don't know I just don't lie them as much as Heero.

[Moony]

I will admit that I am a favoritist, I'm addicted to Luts. There, I said it! Don't judge me! I'm not ashamed of my likings! Even when they burn me! I come back. ;o;

Anyhoos - I will have to admit I do like both companies kitties, but I do find qaulities that I don't like too much. :B

Pipos - I really didn't like Baha's face ( I honestly at first though they were kinda fugly) , I'm more of a softer features kinda girl. ( well usually ) I really started getting the kitty itch when Neero and Heero came out. I was in love with their faces! ( and Baha DID grow on me ). Tails options are pretty killer, but not being magnetic bites when you get them pants and you got to cut holes in them. At least Pipo's recognizes that problem and makes pants made fer the cats with tails. D;

Luts - I really, really like the Zuzu's. They are beautifully sculpted, their magnetic tails rock mountains. I get cavities looking at their faces, jeez.

I really really HATE with a burning passion their limited availablity, and how phuqing slow I am at convincing myself to get one, but that's more hating on myself than Luts. But Luts can go kick themselves for how utterly craptastic their customer service is. :B