How many is too many when taking photos?

[BunnyChan]

How many dolls can you group and pose comfortably before it gets too overwhelming to keep track of everyone?

I just realized today that im not really looking forward to trying my first photostory with all my lost boys...Im reaaaally picky about my photos so im sure setting up just one will take me quite a while.

There are just so many hands, and wigs, and poses, and balancing, and primping to do *_* So much to keep track of..and forget it if something like the wind keeps un-doing your work :damnit


....Sitting dolls are usually a LOT easier...That's not so hard to handle since they dont fall over as easily...but im still curious:

how many is the maxium number of dolls you can handle comfortably (and still have them look good in photos)

sitting: #
standing: #

[Kurosakura]

Actually, I find it very difficult to handle more than one doll, no matter if they're sitting or standing. So thats the biggest reason I so rarely take pictures of any of my dolls together! I'd say that either way, two dolls is my absolute maximum. And even then, its not particularly 'comfortable.'

I've been very seriously considering getting a pair of stands to make it easier!

[Daggerchan]

I've had 5 dolls at one time, and I found it quite overwhelming. I sold them all and am waiting for the replacement team to arrive, I'm going to see how it works out with all minis.. (I have about 7 mini size dolls planned.. :sweat )

[harlowe]

I think 3-4 is perfect for photographing/posing/goofing around with. 5-6 is the most I'd want to deal with.

[Silence Spoken]

. . . they get overwhelming after two or three for me.

(Yet, I can't seem to downsize :sweat)

So far as posing goes I'm really comfortable with an infinite amount of dolls, I just see it as a challenge. It gets my mind working, and I like that . . . as an artist and just in general. It's more invasion of personal space that gets me in the end . . . (of course, that's more about how many you own than posing . . . ).

[celestia]

Personally- when bunched together in one photo, look like a bunch of yellowing antiquities sporting cheap looking clothing- the effort is minimal, maintenance- minimal, attention- minimal. That's when too much is too many.
Of course, it's how they're presented to the audience which gives them the impression- but when you see your own dolls and those feelings start to sink in- where you may even be considering mass downsizing...or you can't seem to deliver them all with the same pizazz they were intended to be perceived as then yea.. you've probably got too many.
Personally, I can imagine having 11 without them losing their special qualities (as some photos tend to show with a bunch of "dead" and "lifeless" looking dolls together.)

So yea, shortened version: when the quality of the hobby does not reflect the doll on hand- you have too many. Of course, thankfully this can be applied in a more versatile manner, but it comes down to that for me- in my eyes.

[BunnyChan]

So yea, shortened version: when the quality of the hobby does not reflect the doll on hand- you have too many.

I definitly disagree with your opinion, if only because standing 2-3 dolls together, depending upon the tendancies of the doll itself can be extremely difficult. I definitly didnt plan to take the discussion in this direction. It takes a certain level of talent to be able to handle posing several dolls all at once, I think. Patience too. AND delicacy, actually. It takes all kinds of careful, light handed pokes and prods sometimes to find that perfect center of balance, or look that some people just arent good at.

[celestia]

A lot of the hobby is perceived through camera lens, so obviously photography is a large aspect. And, as with this topic, the question is aimed towards positioning. So for something that would originally look mediocre or generic, the more you can incorporate WHILST maintaining that "special" quality all dolls have potential to illicit, the more you can assume to associate with more Skill/talent/awareness.

Not enough skill/talent/awareness (trying to be euphemistic for those easily offended= . =")- it's too many for that person to handle.
Nothing wrong with that. Everyone doesn't aim for the same thing.
It's not just the photography or the quality of the portraiture either- but the significance of what is being translated into the photograph. Balance .

I can understand that you may think my response is still going the wrong direction, but ultimately for some owners, strategic planning and positioning makes it less overwhelming than against say, an enthusiastically, budding hobbyist who just got their first group of ten dolls on a whim.

edit: shorter version: correlates to the photographer's skill. I hope people can make sense of what i'm getting at now. lol

[Mary-Lee]

I prefer the tinies, so more of them can fit into my room very nicely. Since I don't own a larger doll yet, I can't really comment, but yes, having 2-3 24" dolls may overtake my "doll space" very quickly. I can tuck dozens of little dolls in that same space without them looking crowded.

So many variables. As long as you enjoy your lot, and have fun, the more the merrier!!

Mary-Lee

[Myriai]

Hmmm...I'm perceiving the question not on how many dolls owned is too much, just how many dolls in one photo is too much. You can have fifty dolls be happy with all fifty of those dolls, yet not be able to get them posed right in a photo beyond a group of 2 or 3 ^_^

In my case, when it comes to posing dolls in the same photo I can usually get about 3 in one photo and still feel the dynamics. I'm much happier at times with two--but that may just be because my characters are all one story, but they each have an "other" that is almost specifically for them--whether that other be a significant other, best friend, or sibling and those "others" shift fluidly. I can go beyond three dolls for a given story, but it's blastedly hard to get the entire scene of 4+ dolls in one photo without backing up so far they just seem like a faceless group of players.

I hope that made sense ^_^

My pictures at meet-ups vary quite drastically from the ones I take at home. At a meet-up (when I actually shut up long enough to take pictures *grins*) I am generally intent of getting every doll there in a photo of some sort. Sometimes I'll take individual photos, but most of the time I end up snapping photos of the groupings (we all have a tendency to pose our dolls together in certain ways though they get moved a bit during the course of the meet) because in all honesty I'd much rather chat with owners and play with dolls at a meet-up than snap photos ^_^

[Brightfires]

In general, I never liked dealing with more than two or three at a time. I'm pretty picky about posing, and working primarily with CP dolls who don't have locking joints, getting a larger group than that to hold the poses I wanted long enough for me to get the shot was a bit like herding cats.

That said, I did set up one whole-group "family portrait" about a year ago that involved all of the dolls I had at the time, as well as their assorted non-BJD pets, familiars and sidekicks. Some of them were sitting, some standing, and I was pretty adamant about them not looking like a static collection of dust-catchers. The logistics of it... Planning out exactly how I wanted to position everyone... took a lot of time. 'A lot more than actually setting up the shot or taking the pictures.

I need to do a new group picture, since a few dolls have been added since then, a few have been sold and others have been "updated" in various ways... but thought of going through all that again isn't appealing. It was a royal pain in the rump, and I wasn't completely pleased with the result.

So, in my experience, trying to pose a tribe of dolls is hard, and the results (http://turtlehouse.domuscygna.com/Images/Assorted/Thumb.jpg) may not be worth the time it takes.

[Taco]

I'm comfortable dealing with a lot of dolls, but it means that everything goes slower. I want to work on my photostory--well, first I have to get the necessary characters. Then I decide I'm not satisfied with their clothing, so new clothes are in order for everybody. Then I realize, oh crap, I have the ones I need for the first few chapters but I've got to find all the necessary props and backdrops etc. etc. etc. So, after 2 years I've managed to get most of the guys I need, a lot of story chapters scripted out, practice with a friend's digital camera, but am still working on clothes and props, so nothing has actually been shot yet. I wouldn't have this problem, if I had decided to do things on a smaller scale, but having a lot of dolls does give a lot more flexibility with story lines. It's not like I'm in a hurry anyway. I enjoy the process.

As for posing, it depends on what they're doing and who's involved. Sitting is never a problem, but as far as standing goes I have some that are more trustworthy about remaining in an upright position than others (*cough* Frank *cough*). If worse comes to worse, I'll look into finding or making some doll stands and figure out how to keep them disguised and out of site.

[Karhys]

I think it depends on what sort of photographs you're taking, too. By that I mean -- at least for me, anyway -- whether you are trying to take snaps or portrait shots, or whether you're trying to do a photostory, or on occasions whether you're taking general pics at a doll event.

For snaps I generally don't feel comfortable doing more than 2 dolls. Sometimes I might do 3 or even 4 and on rare occasions I've gotten all or almost all of my dolls into a shot, usually for a specific reason. But I usually find that it complicates things and for me 2 is the optimum number of dolls in front of the camera to get a comfortable look.

For a photostory however anything from 2-5 is okay with me. (I don't think I've ever had story events with more than that, heh.) When I'm doing a photostory, I'm not trying to showcase the dolls at their prettiest, or the outfits, or the poses, or something artistic -- I'm trying to capture an event on film. So I'm usually looking for poses, settings, and photo layouts that express what they're saying/doing/feeling. The layout of the whole scene is what's important to me rather than the individual dolls. So I can have more dolls in a shot but so long as, to me, the overall shot expresses what's occuring at that moment, then it's fine.
I hope I'm making sense. A lot of what makes me like or dislike a particular photo I take for a photostory is often hard for me to express - it's just a vibe or feel that I get from it. And for example, the entire overall vibe of a photo can be changed even just by angling one of the doll's heads to make it more seem like he's looking at the other doll that's speaking. Without that angle, the whole scene looks posed, with it, everything looks realistic.

And for doll events, I think I've had up to 45 dolls in a single shot. *laugh* But that was a specific "let's showcase just what a huge collection of dolls we have here today!" photo. Usually I'll still only want to have a couple of dolls in a shot for it to be a shot that I like.

Whatever I'm photographing for, though, it's important to me that everything in the photo looks right. Most importantly is the posture of the doll, everything from the angles of the elbows and knees to the placement of the hands, the curvature of the body itself, and the angle of the head. If anything looks awkward or unrealistic or even physically not possible by a human, I get really antsy. I've never been comfortable with just plonking a doll down and snapping away. I've been known to waste hours getting photos just right. :oops Also having the wig look good takes up waaay too much time, ha! Just one flyaway hair can ruin an otherwise perfect shot, and gods knows their wigs can be such a hassle, especially the longer ones, or the curly ones. I usually keep a hairbrush and bottles of Volks Wig Oil and Volks Mist on hand whenever doing pics, and I still get dud hairs in shots. :sweat

I forgot to mention, but just looking at the first post again -- unless I'm doing a BIG group of dolls that includes ones I'm not familiar with, sitting/standing doesn't make all that much difference to me. My own dolls are all really stable and my photo setup has a flat, solid floor, so I could, in theory, have all of them standing for a shot and not find it to be too much trouble. But if there are other dolls involved and I'm not familiar with their balance points or stability, I'd probably be much more limited. Like the above-mentioned 45 dolls shot would've been a nightmare. :lol And my flatmate's CP El has never appeared in our photostories because I can't make him stand and it drives me batshit. :p

[Chops]

I love seeing family portaits and whole crews of bjds. :heart

I also have taken many photos of my group (six) and so many of them turned out bad. I would be lucky to get one good one out of 40 shots. That being said I like take group pics, I find it challenging picking out the right clothes (mindful of the silhouette), posing the bodies, getting the face on target, adjusting the lights, etc. And it is time consuming and not something I take on lightly, knowing I need a bigger block of time.*_*

It is interesting reading the above poster's comments, they all make perfect sense. I have recently started to photograph just one or two of my bjds together; I am learning a lot, and hope to improve my close up photography.:yey

[blackbox]

The most dolls I have shot at one time was at a meet up in my home. We had 72 dolls on the stairs. It only took us about 10 minutes to set the dolls up, but there wee 15 of us to do it.

I think we could have spent two hours adjusting and primping..... but I would have to say the most of the dolls look pretty good.

On a personal note I find shooting 2 works best for me.

[KeiCai]

Normally I just do 2 at a time, if I take pictures of more than one. However I've done up to 5 before I think without issue. Posing them can be hard, especially if they're difficult to pose anyway (such as CP boys), but I see it as a challenge.

Some of the best pictures I've seen are people with beautiful dolls full of character that are group shots, and in those cases each doll expresses their character in pose. I find that truly amazing when someone can do that. ^_^

[nikita]

I don't think there is such a thing as taking too many pictures. I DO think there is such a thing as uploading/linking to too many pictures tho. It sometimes irritates me when I see too many pics of the same pose or angle of a doll.

It's always best to take as many pictures as possible from as many angles/points of view so when you're ready to pick, you have many to choose from. Nothing sucks more when you are done taking pics, have put everything away, the light is gone and you realize that you only have 1 or 2 pics to choose from the limited number of pics you shot.

I don't have a set number for sitting or standing. It's what captures the moment for me that counts.

[Shankula]

The large groupings of dolls in pics for me are only taken at our monthly meetups. That said, it is much easier to photograph the ones that are in little chunks of space, like up to 5-6 dolls of any given size. If there are more there, the camera just seems to make them all a jumble, there is no nice focal point--just a blob'o'dolls. That is why macro is my friend...I can zoom in on 3-5 dolls at a time and give them their moments to shine. Why let the details of their faceups, outfits, and little personalities in general get lost in a big photo?

[FunnyLori]

For me it depends on the setting... Do I want to see the trees in the background, or do I want to focus on the dolls. Getting everybody to stay where I want them, how I want them for long periods of time is just not a reasonable request. I mean, I can't even get people to stay in one place long enough for a photo, I certainly can't expect my gravity prone dolls to do the same.

That said, I am now very interested in taking a family portrait of my dolls again. :)

[Vega]

I actually have a hard time photographing more than one or two... I've been trying to get a "family" picture of my boys for a digustingly long time, actually... it just never seems to turn out!
-V

[sailorstarsun]

The most dolls I have shot at one time was at a meet up in my home. We had 72 dolls on the stairs. It only took us about 10 minutes to set the dolls up, but there wee 15 of us to do it.

Was that this one (http://www.sailorstarsun.com/graphics/gunter/canterbury01.jpg)? :)

[ranmanekineko]

While I prefer to pose and take pics of only one of my dolls at a time, sometimes I will do a duo of two SD girls, or one SD and one tiny- because it gets to be quite a production getting everyone in place for a group/family portrait! Sometimes to jazz things up, I take shots of one doll, but toss in a plushie or props.

[Wotan]

I think it depends on what sort of photographs you're taking, too. By that I mean -- at least for me, anyway -- whether you are trying to take snaps or portrait shots, or whether you're trying to do a photostory, or on occasions whether you're taking general pics at a doll event.

This is my opinion, as well. The number of dolls that would look good together in a photostory or in a glamor shot would be a lot lower than the number that would be "good" in, say, a straight-up comparison shot or a picture from a meetup.

More general advice: if you've got to photoedit pictures together to get all the dolls into the "full" shot, you've probably got too many in the photo. :p

[Mercy]

I think the most dolls I have ever taken at once was 131 dolls at a meet up, but they all turn into little dots with no real difference between them. I honestly don't enjoy taking large group shots, because they all remind me of when I was in grade school and we were made to stand shortest to tallest. They aren't the most creative, honestly, and like in those pictures, the dolls just all sort of look like... well, ok.

I think the most dolls I've posed for fun/photostory was 7 and that was outside, with rocks, and help. And I will never handle that many again. Frustrating because you would get one doll situated, and then, another would fall. One of my friend's dolls fell and got pretty banged up.

The best shoots I've ever done have been 1-3. But like a few people already mentioned, it just depends on what the purpose of the shoot is for (photo stories or just pin ups, etc). I really love just shooting one doll so I can focus all my attention on that one and not deal with any others, though sometimes the dynamic of a second doll helps set a mood or helps in what you're end result. Just depends on what you are trying to do.

[Brightfires]

More general advice: if you've got to photoedit pictures together to get all the dolls into the "full" shot, you've probably got too many in the photo. :p

[laughs] Or you made the mistake of composing the arrangement on a horizontal axis rather than a vertical one...

It's way, WAY too easy to underestimate exactly how much space a tribe of dolls will take up vs. the width of your field of focus. *_*

[Bel]

Shooting three dolls at once is a tremendous pain in the butt. I mean, having them standing or kneeling on one leg and having everyone's poses be natural in relation to the camera's perspective - three sucks for me.

[Ridgeway]

I mostly take pictures of my dolls one at time. I've done very few shoots with two or three dolls. I mean to take a group shot of all of my dolls together, but 12 is a bit much. :(

I don't really count the pictures I've taken at meetups. Group shots show quantity but most of the dolls end up looking bad, some dolls with crooked necks, staring vacantly into space, wig slipped back. I always want to fuss with the dolls so that everyone looks good. Doesn't happen.

[Zozolala]

Three is all I can handle. Well, maybe not even that :P

I took a family pic of my U-Noa's recently, and I actually had to tie them together at some point to keep them from toppling over.
I was working inside a light tent, they had to be real close to each other, and my boy stood on some plastic lid I had laying around to make him a bit taller. And every time I had a great pose and was ready to click, they fell flat on their faces.

52,678 times.
It took me two days and a lot of patience (and swearing) to get one decent pic ^^;

[Izam]

3! I really can't do well when there's more than 3. Sometimes I couldn't even do 3 right. So family photo? Probably never gonna happen.

[Osaka]

I can manage three in a photostory comfortably. Fortunately for me and my dolls, I like one-on-one or small scenes better than great huge epics with casts of thousands. I do all right with family portraits. It's not much different than trying to get a big family in a picture together, really.

Some dolls in my group just don't get photographed, just because their posing makes me pull my hair out. Poor Gianni--just one of him is too many for a photo. XD

[Janne]

I don't think I've gotten more than a few shots with two dolls that I was completely happy with.

I don't think I've ever managed to get a picture of three where something wasn't so off that it ruined the picture for me. Someone always ends up looking like a mannequin - or a doll.

That's not to say I won't keep trying. Brightfires awesome family picture is certainly an inspiration!

[Renzi]

My dolls look freakish together, so I always photograph them separately.

[derilan85]

I tell ya what it is not easy to do, and it only takes 1 to fall and then the rest go at the same time. I have 7 and getting them all together for a couple of shots is tricky since my camera is only 3.1 mega pixels. It's good for 1 or 2 but more....not enough features:sweat

[Sailor Moon]

Well, I've done as many as 10 dolls all at once in one group photo without much hassle. I found it to be actually very fun and oddly relaxing. ^_^ But to more specifically answer your question, on a comfort level for sitting and standing? Sitting, I can easily get about 7 dolls together or more. As far as standing goes, I'd have to say 2 or 3. Mainly because with 2 cats and a 7 year old, standing for pictures becomes a race against time. lol.

Although, as I said, I've taken every doll in the house for a group photo, with great enjoyment. ^_^

[annina]

ha i only have two bjds at the moment, but i once took a group photo with my then 3 pullips and first bjd (anouk) and that already exhausted me, or rather, i was so scared that they would fall.
i love balancing one doll in cool poses, or special ones, even if it takes a longer time to get it all right, but i think i'm not made for balancing three or more together :sweat
so i'd say two is ok and more is too much for me

[ArcaneMuse]

I think for me it depends on the scene and what's going on. I have to say I'm most comfortable with three or under just because I can get full body shots without having them right up against each other and without the edge of my backdrop being shown. I have done 5 before where it looked natural but again I was using a backdrop that just barely contained them.

[TheFontBandit]

Also having the wig look good takes up waaay too much time, ha! Just one flyaway hair can ruin an otherwise perfect shot, and gods knows their wigs can be such a hassle, especially the longer ones, or the curly ones. I usually keep a hairbrush and bottles of Volks Wig Oil and Volks Mist on hand whenever doing pics, and I still get dud hairs in shots. :sweat

Ugh... yes, the curse of the flyaway hairs. >_< I'm working on my retouch skills to get rid of them afterward, hee hee.

The most dolls I've gotten in one shot was eighty or ninety-something, but it was at Nekocon and it was pretty much just to show the sheer quantity. Of course there were dolls that were posed funky and the lighting was pretty bad... but it still seemed pretty impressive. ^_^

On my own, I usually don't post more than two or three because otherwise all the details just get too tricky and I inevitably overlook something.

[Rabbit-moon]

I tell ya what it is not easy to do, and it only takes 1 to fall and then the rest go at the same time. I have 7 and getting them all together for a couple of shots is tricky since my camera is only 3.1 mega pixels. It's good for 1 or 2 but more....not enough features:sweat

I agree with derilan! Ive been wanting to take a group shot of my kids for ages, but my experience was a disaster! One doll fell over, and knocked over several others, and I had a rather nasty face-plant happen. I haven't attempted a group photo since. (I guess I could ask my Husband to be a spotter for me, if I ever get brave enough to try it again!)

[Tonboko]

I did my first shoot with two full sized SD dolls a few days ago... it was an adventure to say the least.

It did not help they were both CP dolls, I had the boy staning on dice cases cause he needed to be taller for character purposes, it was a quazi embrace shot, the girl had a ankle lenght wig and scalemail armor (not a good think when she would take a dive), and one of my cats thought that the backdrop would be a super cool thing to bound though.:sweat

I think before I endevor on that again I will invest in some lights so I at least have decent looking pictures for all my pain.

[dustlilac]

I've been photographing my crew for such a long time yet today was the first time I've ever tried taking photos of more than one in the shot. I hated it :mad and definitely need lots of practice or something.

Never mind getting them to stand close enough and solid enough, making wigs/clothes proper... and then have the posing natural with some kind of chemistry going on. It bugged me like hell that they looked totally unaware of each other no matter how much I tried.

[MieAga]

I think 5 tinys and 6 60cm is the largest groups we've done in private. It was about as much as we could pose properly and make look nice! It can be challenging but the end result is totally worth it the fiddling and curses.

[PawPaw]

Never enough! :D I've taken over 100 photos in a shoot. But.. as for a gallery post, I'd say 30 is a good number unless it's a photoshoot with a ton of dolls. xD But 30 pictures is a lot. Any more than that, and you get bored waiting for it to all load! xDD

EDIT: Haha, I just realized I misunderstood the question! As for number of dolls, I have the same answer.. never enough. ^^

[Amet]

My comfort zone is pairs, usually. Beyond that I get lost in wig malfunctions and awkward posing. :sweat

[Rosebud]

What a great question. I haven't even thought of taking pictures. I'm waiting for my first doll. I didn't even think of taking pictures for a story till I saw some of yours. There are some great well thought out shots. Maybe it would be easier that taking pictures of your children. Who by the time they are in their teens did not want their picture taken.
I'll have to test out my camera before I get the package.

Edit: I also love some of the doll avitars. I want to try one.

[EilonwyG]

I don't know, I've never had a problem with having too many dolls. But I guess it depends on what you mean by how many dolls in a picture. I've taken quite a number of group shots over the years, between my dolls and my friend Kearsy's dolls, plus group shots at meets. I've never felt we had too many dolls. Granted Kearsy and I haven't done a full group shot of our two families in ages, but that's partly due to the fact that it's hard to transport that many dolls at once, not to any idea that we had too many to photograph.

As for photostories, I don't do too many and the one's I've done usually only revolved around two or three dolls. But even in a photostory, if the story call for it, I don't see why 10, 15, or even more dolls couldn't, in theory, be in a shot. It's just something that I don't think comes up often in any given story.

I guess it can get more frustrating when dealing with multiple dolls, but I think the end result is worth a little agrivation.

[Rorek]

I've found that for me, one or two, sometimes three, is about as many as I'm comfortable posing for pictures. It's hard for me to get the interactions to look realistic, for more than a couple of dolls. But generally, I tend to focus on only one doll at a time anyway, so maybe it's just personal preference.

I have alot of respect for those of you who can realistically pose and photograph large groups of dolls. :nod

[kimmums]

The most I've ever had was 3. Two minis and my Rosenlied. But all of them were pretty good standers and sitters so I didn't really have too many problems. But I guess for me it all depends on how good they are at staying upright. :D

[Aquido]

if you have couches and chairs and furniture, it makes group photos alot easier LOL.

[Hunajasieni]

I have pictured all my dolls sitting, but it wasn't comfy. xD

So it still feels good with dolls sitting is like 6 or if there is tinies propably more.
Standing it is 3-4 same size dolls, different sizes it can be more.

[alekknesek]

I haven't really experienced this cuz I only have one doll so far. So we'll see ._.

[AnimeCandy]

squee the more the better i love seeing large groups of dolls in photos XP

[yunnrila]

Usually 70-100 at a time. Then pick a few to use.
I always keep changing light and camera setting during shooting just to get better result. Takes a lot of time, but it's fun. :)

[ikke777]

I think 2 is ideal, that way they can interact.

[VelvetBat]

I usually take pictures of 1 doll att he time, standing. I have done 2 shoots with 2 dolls standing, but I haven't tried more yet.

When the doll is stringed (and hot glued) well, and stands very stable, I don't have any problems with 2 dolls att he same time. I usually pose the first one (second one is laying on the floor) and then pose the second one next to it.

For dolls who are not really stable, I find it really hard to pose them together with an other doll.

In future I want to try and photograph more than 2 dolls at the same time.

[Spring]

I've never tried more then two together. I saw someone's shoot that was outside with their 80 cm boy hanging in a tree and the rest sitting on the ground and I thought that was a good way to deal with all your dolls in one place. I might try that some time.

[Somnambulist]

Three's my limit so far. I've tried it with the whole group before and it just didn't work out. Someone always falls, and then it's just downhill from there. They're like dominoes that sound like bowling pins when they fall over.

[aneemal]

I think it's a shame when there are so many dolls in one photo that you can't appreciate the details of each one.