Hobby vs Fandom - what do you consider BJD collecting to be? [Archive]

Rhian

09-09-2007, 11:08 PM

demitasse

09-09-2007, 11:46 PM

Hmm. I'm probably too sleepy to articulate this properly, but I see it this way: A fandom can have elements that equal a hobby. A hobby can be an integral part of a fandom. A hobby is NOT a fandom.

Personally, I think that ABJDs are more of a hobby. They're independent, in my opinion, of the other elements of fandom (a game, a book, a TV show--most 'fandoms' are linked in some way to a cohesive plot, which BJDs are not).

So, while cosplay is a hobby that is part of fandom, ABJDs are simply a hobby.

...God, I hope that makes some sense. I'm gonna go back to bed now. :angry

CatMoran

09-10-2007, 01:45 AM

If you collect, customize or create bjds, it's a hobby. If you're a fan of a company, mold or individual doll that you don't necessarily intend to collect, it's a fandom. It can be either or both.

joey

09-10-2007, 01:46 AM

Hobby or fandom, I use both terms. I've been in different fandoms for years and the politics of this hobby just seem so much the same as any fandom I've been in.

Mid

09-10-2007, 01:55 AM

I agree with above, it really can be both.

When I talk about it though, I refer to BJD as my hobby rather then my fandom, as I'm really not a vocal person and I'm more of a fan of the dolls I have then anything else. XD

Merry

09-10-2007, 02:27 AM

ABJDs are definitely a hobby for me. Doll collecting, like any sort of collecting, is defined as a hobby and while we may feel differently about our dolls than how, for instance, a Barbie collector feels about his/her dolls, what we do, at its roots, is doll collecting. There is no fashion doll 'fandom' or art doll 'fandom' so why would there be an ABJD 'fandom'?

When I got my first doll in 2002 and for some time after that ABJDs were unquestionably a hobby. It wasn't until the dolls started to grow in popularity and attracted attention from anime, j-rock and other true fandoms that people started using the word 'fandom' applied to the ABJD hobby simply because it was a word with which they were familiar.

Unfortunately, it seemed to me that the people entering into the ABJD hobby from fandoms brought along a lot of the penchant for, for lack of a better word, drama that seems inherent in many fandoms. Certainly there'd been mild drama previously in the hobby but it increased rather disproportionaly to the number of people joining and typically involved these new people.

So, at least for me, the term 'fandom' applied to ABJDs has a very negative connotation...though I certainly have nothing against fandoms on their own terms and have, throughout the years, been involved in several fandoms myself.

Bel

09-10-2007, 02:32 AM

I consider it a hobby, but the term "fandom" is relatively new to me. I've been involved in the horror community for fifteen years, and nobody ever referred to it as "horror fandom." So my background & other interests are probably responsible for my semantics.

But, to me, the word "hobby" implies something that can be undertaken and enjoyed privately, whereas a fandom seems to be more about the shared enthusiasm over Thing X. I agree with Rhian's comment - I see this as an individual, private hobby that I happen to share with people who come together to exchange knowledge and a squee or three (heh.)

Pixie

09-10-2007, 02:50 AM

I call it a hobby. It does have elements of fandom in it, definitely, but in fandom there's a very clear starting point. Characters and plot. While our dolls can be and are considered characters and our photostories have plots, we don't share the characters and plots the way fandom has to.

Mara

09-10-2007, 03:48 AM

I see it as both, though I do agree that fandom does carry that negative connotation to it because of the antics that go on in certain fan circles. That could be a whole other discussion for another board, though.

I'm no sociologist, but I would also say that this is a community like any others. You have the sects, the hierarchy, the families, the complicated relationships, the whole gamut. Maybe that's how it comes out to be a fandom - the human element, the interaction. That part of you that is concerned about how many comments you get on a post, the part of you that wants to make pals and connections, etc. etc. etc. The primary interest for the hobby and the fandom are BJDs, but you could say that you're a hobbyist and never, ever become interested in meeting other people. If you're in the fandom, you're participating with other people and making relationships with the people, not the interest that you share. Does that make sense?

For me it's more a hobby at the moment - I haven't had time for fandom in the past couple of months because of other commitments.

astrosnik

09-10-2007, 04:45 AM

"Fandom" to me seems a very external, non-participatory type of admiration. It also seems to imply a cultish obsession. I consider a hobby to be an activity where you are being creative in some aspect, whether it's modifiying or faceuping your dolls, or just taking photos or sewing for them. I never saw the term fandom applied until bjds started gaining the attention of the cosplay crowds and showing up at anime conventions. I think it's the way we used to refer to people being doll "collectors" versus customizers.

kuro

09-10-2007, 04:51 AM

I think it's a person-to-person definition. For me, I'd say hobby because I associate the word "hobby" with making things, and for me, sewing, photography, and painting are key aspects of my interest in BJDs.

Pixie

09-10-2007, 04:51 AM

I'm not sure if this getting off the topic, but I have to argue about fandom being external and non-participatory. Fandom can and does include role playing, fanfiction, fanart, discussion groups, meet ups, conventions...I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say it's as social as this hobby, but fandom does rotate on a social hub. If you're just an observer, you're probably just a fan, not a part of fandom. Fandom borders a little on obsession. At least, that's my concept of fandom.

Fyredancer

09-10-2007, 05:14 AM

I've been involved in various fandoms for years and years, but when I think of the BJD phenomenon, I think "hobby." Because you're not just a "fan" of ball-jointed dolls; you collect, you customize, you take photos, etc. :)

Cynthia

09-10-2007, 05:14 AM

Everyone else has said this (faster and better), while I was drafting and then deleting a hugely convoluted answer--yes, even more hugely convoluted than this one is turning out to be. So I'll use the tantrum piggy :tantrum and give you the executive summary: I'm really troubled by the implications of the word "fandom," when it's applied to the collecting, customization, and study of this specialized type of doll.

My experience of fandoms, over the past ten years, has been that--I'm generalizing like mad, of course, and there are most definitely exceptions--they are ephemeral, faddy, and driven by herd mentality. As dearly as I love the concept of fandom, I can't help suspecting that fannish life is as shallow and shifty as it is because it's so dependent on the ephemeral, faddy, herdlike nature of the entertainment industry. One minute, everyone's passionately interested in LOTR RPF, churning out fanfiction and putting up fansites and creating cults of personality around the BNFs. Then most of those fans (not all of them, but most) turn on a dime and are passionately interested in Justice League. For example. There was wonderful writing and vidding and website design produced . . . but it gets abandoned, left behind, when the next wave comes along. And one of the most distinctive features of fandom, IMO, is that the passing of one doesn't leave physical traces.

A hobby, in my mind, is tangible: as other people have said, it involves things. Making things, collecting things, restoring things, preserving things, amassing knowledge about things. (HO gauge trains. First editions of Hemingway. Penny Blacks. Buffalo nickels. Mechanical banks. Netsuke. Scrapbooks. Beadwork.) Seems to me that's what longer-term BJD owners do, within their own specialized branch of the larger doll-collection hobby. They don't just share a lively social interaction and create complex characters/stories through their dolls, as important as those things are. What attracted me to BJD people in the first place is that I saw them also making a real effort to learn as much as they could about their objects of desire as objects--the chemistry of resin; the mechanics of modding stringing channels--and then to archive that knowledge as well as they could. Fandoms, generally speaking, don't seem to have the same kind of preservationist impulse for their own creations and knowledge. Just try to find some of the big works of Highlander fanfiction now. The links are broken, the websites have vanished, it's all gone. Maybe this is inevitable, given the nature of web-based information. But what happens when people bring online fandom-based behavior and expectations into the object-based world of BJD ownership?

So one of the things that bothers me most about the rush toward BJDs as a "fandom" is that I wonder what will happen to all the dolls when the herd thunders in a different direction, as it will. (Probably sooner than later.) Will thousands of these beautiful, carefully-crafted objects end up in landfills, refusing to biodegrade over the next thousand years? Or will the remaining BJD hobbyists and the "traditional" collectors, with their longer-view mentality, pick up as many discarded dolls as they can salvage, and make BJDs part of the general history of dollmaking?

The latter, I hope.

09-10-2007, 05:27 AM

My experience of fandoms, over the past ten years, has been that--I'm generalizing like mad, of course, and there are most definitely exceptions--they are ephemeral, faddy, and driven by herd mentality. As dearly as I love the concept of fandom, I can't help suspecting that fannish life is as shallow and shifty as it is because it's so dependent on the ephemeral, faddy, herdlike nature of the entertainment industry. One minute, everyone's passionately interested in LOTR RPF, churning out fanfiction and putting up fansites and creating cults of personality around the BNFs. Then most of those fans (not all of them, but most) turn on a dime and are passionately interested in Justice League. For example. And one of the most distinctive features of fandom, IMO, is that the passing of one doesn't leave any physical objects behind.

A hobby, in my mind, is tangible: as other people have said, it involves things. Making things, collecting things, restoring things, preserving things, amassing knowledge about things. (HO gauge trains. First editions of Hemingway. Penny Blacks. Buffalo nickels. Mechanical banks. Netsuke. Scrapbooks. Beadwork.) Seems to me that's what longer-term BJD owners do, within their own specialized branch of the larger doll-collection hobby. They don't just share a lively social interaction and create complex characters/stories through their dolls. What attracted me to BJD people in the first place is that I saw them making a real effort to learn as much as they could about their objects of desire as objects--the chemistry of resin; the mechanics of modding stringing channels--and then to archive that knowledge as well as they could. Fandoms, generally speaking, don't seem to have the same kind of preservationist impulse for their own creations and knowledge. Just try to find some of the big works of Highlander fanfiction now. The links are broken, the websites have vanished, it's all gone.

I was in the process of writing a long-winded rambling reply until I saw your post. You've pretty much summed up my opinion on the matter.

Though I must admit I frequently use the term 'fandom' when referring to my participation in the bjd community purely because I tend to lump most of my online activity under that category despite it not being entirely accurate. I think this says more about my laziness than anything else ;)

fullcircleagain

09-10-2007, 07:08 AM

I think my thoughts along the same lines as others here.

My impression is that it depends on why someone has a bjd.

Some people just like the way they look, like the flexibility, the clothing, so in that sense it's more along collecting lines. Sometimes it turns out they collect other dolls or items along with the bjds.

Others use them as an extension of being a fan of something, create a doll in an image of an anime character, a celebrity, or even a character they made up themselves. Then would the owner really be into fandom? I feel this is more the case.

And then there are those who build their lives around their dolls, to the exclusion of much else. This happens in all areas of collecting, but at that point, does that also represent fandom of their dolls?

Sorry this ended up being more questions, but it is an interesting topic with lots of grey areas. And I also believe that people can be both, fans and collectors.

Bel

09-10-2007, 07:52 AM

Wow, Cynthia, that was a great (and sobering) post. You raised points that I never considered, and I think you're spot-on. I need to process it some before I respond further.

Cynthia

09-10-2007, 08:10 AM

Wow, Cynthia, that was a great (and sobering) post. You raised points that I never considered, and I think you're spot-on. I need to process it some before I respond further.

Eh, feh, I'm not even sure I agree with myself. But I do think I believe the part about there being some basic contradiction between "fandom" (as far as that equals "internet-native" and "impermanent") and these very solid, handmade dolls.

And yet the internet has brought people and dolls, and people and people, together when they would never have met otherwise. So we (outside Japan and Korea) couldn't have the hobby without the medium that drives fandom.

AAARRRGGGHHHHHH!

honeyedbiscuit

09-10-2007, 08:23 AM

Yay! I'm glad to see you here, Cynthia. ^__^
You vocalized the words in my brain but far more articulately than I ever could.

To me, this is a hobby. To me, fandoms have an incredibly huge negative connotations; they seem to be... fleeting; fads, at best.
Not to repeat what Cynthia wrote, but a hobby is hands-on, which is what dolls are to me!

thirstyangel

09-10-2007, 12:07 PM

What's in a name? If we take fandom to mean that community of people who are fans of a certain sport, activity, famous person, famous movie etc, then BJD the hobby is almost inseparable from BJD the fandom.

According to this (http://members.tripod.com/~fandom101/about.html), one aspect of fandom involves fans using "their object of fandom to create social meaning in their own lives." The example given is that of a fan who gains confidence watching his or her favorite character on TV. Likewise, in BJD the hobby, we often hear (or we ourselves may have said so at one point in time or another) that, since owning BJDs, many BJD owners have expanded their social circle. BJD owners use their dolls to gain confidence in a social situation by attending doll meets, sharing tips and information online, etc. Another aspect is how "fans express their fandom to the outside world through speech or appearance". The most notable example would be cosplay. Or even sport fans who wear t-shirts of their favorite teams. Likewise in the BJD fandom, when we carry our dolls around to attend a doll meet or event. We take photos of each other's dolls. Some owners dress like their dolls, some owners have their dolls dress like them, and some owners enjoy carrying their dolls everywhere they go even when they aren't going to a doll meet.

To me, it's both a hobby and a fandom. It's a hobby because I enjoy it, even by myself, without online or real life contact with any other BJD owner. But it's also a fandom because, from time to time, I do seek out the company of other BJD owners to talk to them, to hear what they have to say, to enjoy their BJD photography, etc. (Look, I registered to post here! :sweat )

Fandom is not about popularity contests though. That's an entirely different bug that isn't exclusive to fandom at all. The need to be popular, the way I see it, is a human condition peculiar to certain personality types and it could afflict anyone, fan or otherwise.

Karhys

09-10-2007, 12:11 PM

Eh, feh, I'm not even sure I agree with myself. But I do think I believe the part about there being some basic contradiction between "fandom" (as far as that equals "internet-native" and "impermanent") and these very solid, handmade dolls.

And yet the internet has brought people and dolls, and people and people, together when they would never have met otherwise. So we (outside Japan and Korea) couldn't have the hobby without the medium that drives fandom.

AAARRRGGGHHHHHH!

That said, I doubt that any of the other hobby groups that you described above (such as HO gauge trains or mechanical banks) have ever felt the need to apply the word 'fandom' to their hobby groups -- even if all their activity takes places online. So I wonder why our hobby (which, as far as I can see, falls into the hobby category quite firmly -- I largely agree with your wonderful post!) has chosen to apply the word fandom to itself?

I mean, I could probably answer myself there immediately and cite the influx of members of other fandoms groups who were used to using the word 'fandom' over the word 'hobby' to describe their activities -- but it's still interesting (to me anyway) that it has become so pervasive when it seems that a lot of people object to it. Is it simply the prevailing demographic of the community that decides? (or the most vocal/post-happy demographic of the community? ;))

Aside from the salient points that you posted, Cynthia, I've also always felt that fandom required something to be fannish over -- in the sense of, worshipping from afar. Irrespective of the community interaction, the main focal point wasn't tangibly within reach. Whereas the dolls are very tangibly right here and now. We may "fangirl" over other people's dolls but we're not all here to worship the dolls of one person we don't know.

I'm not sure how much sense that makes -- sometimes the nebulous associations I create with words confuse even me. :oops But that was always how I'd felt about it.

Guide

09-10-2007, 12:23 PM

My impression is that it depends on why someone has a bjd.

Some people just like the way they look, like the flexibility, the clothing, so in that sense it's more along collecting lines. Sometimes it turns out they collect other dolls or items along with the bjds.

Others use them as an extension of being a fan of something, create a doll in an image of an anime character, a celebrity, or even a character they made up themselves. Then would the owner really be into fandom? I feel this is more the case.

As someone who does both of those, I agree.

For me, my basic interest in BJDs is very much a hobby. I have my doll, Mikos, who I bought becuase he was lovely and who really has nothing to do with anything else in my life. I love the inscale clothing and items BJDs can get, and I am facinated by their shoes. :blush So in that respect it is a private thing for me.

However, I do dip into what might be called 'fandoms' of various kinds with my dolls. I have had dolls based on computer game characters (and will do again), and also characters of my own creation. I also join up often with the BJD fandom- and by that I mean the vast array of other people out there, with whom the only thing I have in common is BJDs. I even go to conventions and meet-ups with these people (which I love) but that aspect of BJDs is- for me- very much part of a fandom, just like the anime fandom (which I also used to be part of.)

Cynthia

09-10-2007, 03:58 PM

That said, I doubt that any of the other hobby groups that you described above (such as HO gauge trains or mechanical banks) have ever felt the need to apply the word 'fandom' to their hobby groups -- even if all their activity takes places online. So I wonder why our hobby (which, as far as I can see, falls into the hobby category quite firmly -- I largely agree with your wonderful post!) has chosen to apply the word fandom to itself?

I mean, I could probably answer myself there immediately and cite the influx of members of other fandoms groups who were used to using the word 'fandom' over the word 'hobby' to describe their activities -- but it's still interesting (to me anyway) that it has become so pervasive when it seems that a lot of people object to it. Is it simply the prevailing demographic of the community that decides? (or the most vocal/post-happy demographic of the community? ;))

Aside from the salient points that you posted, Cynthia, I've also always felt that fandom required something to be fannish over -- in the sense of, worshipping from afar. Irrespective of the community interaction, the main focal point wasn't tangibly within reach. Whereas the dolls are very tangibly right here and now. We may "fangirl" over other people's dolls but we're not all here to worship the dolls of one person we don't know.

I'm not sure how much sense that makes -- sometimes the nebulous associations I create with words confuse even me. :oops But that was always how I'd felt about it.

Oh, yes, I think that makes great sense! Especially your points about the demographic and about the distanced nature of being fannish over something.

I don't want to drag this OT, but just out of curiosity . . . here's a thought experiment, no need to respond. Would/do Green Bay Packers fans, even young ones, refer to themselves as part of a fandom? Or New York Yankees fans? Or Manchester United supporters? They certainly call themselves fans (well, the Americans do! :sweat:), but the word "fandom" doesn't seem to sit very well with the sports-fan context or sports fans' activities, somehow. Or am I all wrong, and do sports fans use the word now?

Rhian

09-10-2007, 04:10 PM

Cynthia, it's funny you should mention sports - I was looking up the definition of the word "fandom" last night, and in the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fandom) it states:
"While it is now used to apply to groups of people fascinated with any subject, the term has its roots in those with an enthusiastic appreciation for sports. The Oxford English Dictionary traces the usage of the term back as far as 1903, with many of its documented references referring to sports fandom."
I'm pretty sure that the word has dropped out of usage in that sense now, but it's obviously gained a new resurgence with the meaning and associations that we're familiar with. I had never heard the word before a few years ago, and I've only heard of it in connection with internet-using fans of popular books, movies, etc. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that someone's rediscovered the word recently and applied it to book/movie/etc groups rather than it being a long-term association.

Loki

09-10-2007, 04:41 PM

I think that 'fandom' could be at least partially applied to this hobby (as that is what I really see it as at a base level) - in the fact that while BJDs are of course based on physical obtainable objects, it's also rather based on concepts and characters. Fandom for me has always been some sort of heavy appreciation for that intangible - something I like a lot about a person/character/story etc that can then be extracted to be of further pleasure to me - either through discussion with similar minded people, or through my own efforts of furthering the aspects I enjoy - fanfics, photos and what not.

I think there's also a heavy meeting of fandom and hobby within BJDs, as you can use BJDs as mediums in themselves for fandom. Especially with projects like the Minimee idea, where you can make all your fangirly dreams come true (lord knows I've done it already!) by having your idol/character made into a tangible form. So the hoby can be an instrument of fandom, or also I think a type of fandom in itself, as you've got the characters/molds created that people follow, enjoy and to some extent revere. Point in case, there are BJD fanfics. Perhaps not of the BJDs in and of themselves, but the characters they represent.

I think, overall, it's in the personal way you view BJDs. Some people coming into BJDs don't have the concepts of fandoms, so it wouldn't apply to them, but as mentioned, some are heavily embroiled in the fandom idea and so I think it splashes over to their conception of what BJDs mean to them, and how they're used.

Just my 2c anyway. ;D Interesting discussion going on though!

Bel

09-10-2007, 04:53 PM

Or am I all wrong, and do sports fans use the word now?

As a card-carrying, gear-wearing, race-attending, track-driving Nascar fan, I have NEVER heard the word "fandom" applied to race fans.

Aaaand then I googled "Nascar fandom" just now and got a lot of hits.

Anyway, the basic difference to me between a fandom and a hobby is that a fandom exists due to distance & the unlikelihood of direct involvement in Thing X, whereas a hobby is all about direct involvement.

Rhian

09-10-2007, 05:04 PM

As a card-carrying, gear-wearing, race-attending, track-driving Nascar fan, I have NEVER heard the word "fandom" applied to race fans.

Aaaand then I googled "Nascar fandom" just now and got a lot of hits.
As a die-hard Formula 1 fan, I'm in the same position! But in my experience, the only people that declare themselves to be in the F1 fandom are young, internet-users, and usually writing RPS (real-person slash) about the drivers. :o They have less to do with the technicalities of the sport and much more to do with a romantic view of it. So I think that the word is, as Loki says, to do with something intangible like internal characters. And as Bel says, there's no direct involvement... it's something you imagine and build on until you end up with a creation (like a RPS story about, say, Fernando Alonso and Nico Rosberg) which has very little to do with the facts, but which you have taken and made your own, and plugged all your fantasies into.

So I guess I'm saying that fandom is very closely associated with fanfiction. (Not a particularly brilliant point, is it...? :sweat)

Cynthia

09-10-2007, 05:05 PM

Cynthia, it's funny you should mention sports - I was looking up the definition of the word "fandom" last night, and in the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fandom) it states:

I'm pretty sure that the word has dropped out of usage in that sense now, but it's obviously gained a new resurgence with the meaning and associations that we're familiar with. I had never heard the word before a few years ago, and I've only heard of it in connection with internet-using fans of popular books, movies, etc. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that someone's rediscovered the word recently and applied it to book/movie/etc groups rather than it being a long-term association.

Oh, very cool! Wouldn't it be fun to know whether the word was resurrected, or whether it was reinvented independently without any connection to the older sports-journalism usage?

I should say that I'm fascinated, even while I'm uneasy about it, to see the spread of the word *and* the customs of (media) fandom in an object-based collecting situation like BJDs. I would never have thought of applying the idea of "fandom" to such a hands-on activity.

Another wrinkle, or maybe I'm fussing about nothing (again): it seemed to me, until very recently, that one of the great qualities of fandom was that it didn't require its participants to buy things. Sure, fans often collected action figures or movie posters or DVD sets, and spent money going to cons and making costumes and hosting websites, but those weren't *necessary* to be a fan. They weren't even necessary to be a BNF--reputation in a fandom seemed like it was based more on creativity and quality of participation. It was entirely possible to be a highly-respected writer of fanfiction or an influential fannish tastemaker without even buying your own domain name. Vidding required some equipment, so there was an expense involved there, but vidding was a choice, not a requirement, for fannishness. Ditto cosplay.

It just seems . . . weird . . . to me that someone might declare him- or herself a "fan" of BJDs, and dive into BJD "fandom" activity (as I've seen people do, especially in the past year), without the firsthand experience of owning or even handling one. Were there or are there fans of Buffy who never actually watched the show, but just read a magazine article about it?

Shutting up now, I promise! Jeez, I don't even babble this much on my LJ. Sorry, everybody! :oops

miss sha

09-10-2007, 05:10 PM

As someone who models their dolls after the characters that are bouncing around in their hand, saying that I'm in this for the fandom leaves a sour taste in my mouth, as fandom always seems to have a negative connotation. XD

Bel

09-10-2007, 05:10 PM

it seemed to me, until very recently, that one of the great qualities of fandom was that it didn't require its participants to buy things.

LOL - then, for the sake of my poor, weeping wallet, I'm changing my opinion. Dolls = fandom!

Karhys

09-10-2007, 05:17 PM

It just seems . . . weird . . . to me that someone might declare him- or herself a "fan" of BJDs, and dive into BJD "fandom" activity (as I've seen people do, especially in the past year), without the firsthand experience of owning or even handling one. Were there or are there fans of Buffy who never actually watched the show, but just read a magazine article about it?

Actually, I can cite a number of instances in fandoms that I have been in in the past where people have written fanfic about the characters of a series without ever having watched that series. They based their perceptions of the characters off of other fanfic that they had read about them. Not the least of which this was prevalent in the Gundam Wing fandom to a huge degree in the early days of the yaoi scene -- when everyone and their dog wrote GW fanfic, even if it was fic based off fic based fic based off someone who'd actually watched the show.
Why they felt the urge to not only read but write fanfic about a show they'd never seen I have no idea -- for me, I've always felt like I need to have a really good understanding of the original creator's intent and vision for a character before I dare even attempt to mangle it with fanfic. But I think I'm more serious (too serious? :oops) than a lot of fanfic writers.

So yeah -- I guess the concept and the scene is rather different, but obviously it apparently is possible to enjoy a fandom without ever having experienced what it's actually all about!

Shutting up now, I promise! Jeez, I don't even babble this much on my LJ. Sorry, everybody! :oops

Please don't say that! I'm really enjoying reading your thoughts, and contemplating/responding to them, and I'm sure others are too. We're here to make discussion, not stifle it! :D

Cynthia

09-10-2007, 05:21 PM

Actually, I can cite a number of instances in fandoms that I have been in in the past where people have written fanfic about the characters of a series without ever having watched that series. They based their perceptions of the characters off of other fanfic that they had read about them. Not the least of which this was prevalent in the Gundam Wing fandom to a huge degree in the early days of the yaoi scene -- when everyone and their dog wrote GW fanfic, even if it was fic based off fic based fic based off someone who'd actually watched the show.

Urgh, you're so right! I was pretty much blocking the entire GW meta-yaoi phenomenon from my mind (and others like it, too). *_* Self-induced amnesia: it's a GOOD thing. :p

Karhys

09-10-2007, 05:28 PM

Urgh, you're so right! I was pretty much blocking the entire GW meta-yaoi phenomenon from my mind (and others like it, too). *_* Self-induced amnesia: it's a GOOD thing. :p

I admit it; when it comes to GW, I block a lot from my memory. Especially if it involved Christmas or fluffy puppies. :p

LOL - then, for the sake of my poor, weeping wallet, I'm changing my opinion. Dolls = fandom!

I believe this should become our new battle cry! :yey

gothiclibrarian

09-10-2007, 06:55 PM

miss sha

09-10-2007, 07:15 PM

CatMoran

09-10-2007, 09:34 PM

Were there or are there fans of Buffy who never actually watched the show, but just read a magazine article about it?

I'm not sure about Buffy specifically, but I do know people who read Stargate: Atlantis fanfiction regularly but have never seen the show.

nofunangie

09-10-2007, 09:35 PM

Definitely a hobby for me, but I'm not involved in any fandoms (I hadn't even heard that term until a year of two ago) so I've never thought of it that way. Plus like gothiclibrian, I shy away from the "fandom" side as well. I'm not interested in the drama between different online people, nor do I read photostories and follow characters, I just enjoy looking at lovely photos or sharing how to's.

Jenova

09-10-2007, 10:13 PM

I never use the term "fandom" for my interest in BJDs and prefer "hobby", for pretty much the same reasons that have been cited by many others in much clearer language than I could manage. :sweat

I guess it comes down to the connotation of the word "fan" for me, let alone "fandom"... As others have mentioned, there's a sense of distance associated with being a fan of something... Usually, I think the things we're fans of are either intangible (like anime or the like) or unreachable (actors, musicians, sports teams, etc.). I suppose one might be a fan of their brother's band, but that's not the same as being IN the band, which, to me, would be more like how I enjoy my BJDs. I'm creating what I enjoy most about it, instead of seeing other people's work or at best, creating things based on enjoying other people's work.

(And if that made any sense, I'm doing better than I thought. ^^; )

astrosnik

09-11-2007, 12:15 AM

Definitely hobby :D

I've been contemplating an answer to the thread on taking breaks and realized that I've taken short breaks from the "fandom" side...the forums and blogs (and especially my poor website, yeeks)...but not really the "hobby"...the physical dolls.

Actually, I think this is a nice definition. I see a fandom as more of the public community and participation aspects, whereas personal interaction with my dolls to be the hobby part. Even when I've stepped a long way away from forums and discussion, there was still an element of involvement with the dolls themselves.

sgtgeorgecarter

09-11-2007, 02:22 AM

But, to me, the word "hobby" implies something that can be undertaken and enjoyed privately, whereas a fandom seems to be more about the shared enthusiasm over Thing X. I agree with Rhian's comment - I see this as an individual, private hobby that I happen to share with people who come together to exchange knowledge and a squee or three (heh.)

I'm with you here. These dolls are great fun. I search for props, wig, clothes, furniture and other items for them, not always in doll shops either. I have my eye tuned to their scale and am always on the lookout for new and cute things to bring home and play with.

The people I met are other hobbyists who get together to share knowledge and ideas and to play together, rather like the re-enactments I do. We are the ones building what we like for our dolls. We don't share a canon. Many of us don't even have a sculpt we like in common. That isn't necessary because it's not about the individual dolls, it's about how we do what we do with and to them.

Fandom can and does include role playing, fanfiction, fanart, discussion groups, meet ups, conventions...

This is true and I've been in SF fandom forever. The difference seems to be that with the dolls it is not shared worldbuilding taken from a separate external author/source. Not everyone roleplays, not everyone does art. Some people just keep their dolls as dolls. The sharing takes place over the blank slate of the doll, not someone else's book/film/etc.

I mean, I could probably answer myself there immediately and cite the influx of members of other fandoms groups who were used to using the word 'fandom' over the word 'hobby' to describe their activities -- but it's still interesting (to me anyway) that it has become so pervasive when it seems that a lot of people object to it. Is it simply the prevailing demographic of the community that decides? (or the most vocal/post-happy demographic of the community? ;))

I tend to think this is probably the answer.

Also I think some groups think "hobby" is old fashioned and/or not cool enough so they choose a word that they like better.

AreeElf

09-11-2007, 02:32 AM

Personally for me I got into BJD as a fan of the aesthetic of dolls and the idea of them. Once I got my first doll though I jumped full into it as a hobby.

I like customizing and making a bjd more my own. While I do participate in some of the more fandom aspects of it the fandom gets more tiring than the hobby.

One way I get lost in fandom is when I get sidetracked into collector mode. This is when I need to take a step back and start spending more time enjoying each new doll addition than focusing on adding to the family.

So I tend to agree the fandom involves the community, meetups discussion groups.

The hobby is the more physical aspect of the dolls. Customizing them, dressing them and playing with them on a personal level

Lizzard

09-11-2007, 02:50 AM

Wow, lots of food for thought in the posts here.

Though I'm sure my definition meets no official criteria, to me, "fandom" has always meant the people devoted to a particular thing, be it an author's books, an anime series, dolls, whatever.

In my view, being a fan of something doesn't automatically make someone a member of its associated fandom. For example, I love the manga Saiyuki, but I have absolutely no involvement with other Saiyuki fans, either online or in real life, so I'm not part of Saiyuki fandom.

Going by my definitions, therefore, you can have a doll hobby without being part of the doll fandom. But there definitely is a doll fandom -- it's the people who use forums like these. And by participating on those forums, I am participating in the fandom.

Lady Brick

09-11-2007, 02:58 AM

In my view, being a fan of something doesn't automatically make someone a member of its associated fandom.

That's pretty much how I feel about it, in large part because fandoms generally scare me :sweat To me, quite a few fandoms cease being about the thing itself and become about the group of people and what they want that thing to be/mean. I've never been one for that line of thinking. For me, dolls, anime, TV shows, etc will always be hobbies/interests, even when I spend significant amounts of time talking with other fans online.

Reshana

09-11-2007, 05:48 AM

To me, a fandom is a community based on the liking of some sort of media, such as a certain TV/anime series or a trilogy of books. A hobby is making tangible creations/art in which the subject may or may not reflect your interest in a fandom. I don't see much difference between drawing a picture of (to use an example) Harry Potter, writing a Harry Potter fanfic or making a Harry Potter doll. Enjoying drawing, writing, and doll customizing are hobbies, enjoying Harry Potter is fandom. I mean if you knit a Harry Potter scarf you wouldn't say you were in the knitting fandom, you'd say you knitted as a hobby. That's where the difference lies, to me.

bunnydots

09-11-2007, 03:15 PM

It's a hobby for me. I'm not a fandom-type person, and have never been into any of the fandoms or RPGs for anime, Jpop, Harry Potter, or any of those types of communities. I just like dolls, spending time with them, making things for them, and so on.

I realize many people have very positive experiences in fandoms and enjoy them, but to me the word "fandom" connotes a lot of weird social drama and Encyclopedia-Dramatica type stuff. I wouldn't want to be associated with that sort of "fandom". I also don't enjoy cons or fanfic or all the other aspects that seem to go with "fandoms" - no disrespect to those who do, but it's not my thing. Therefore, I doubt I would ever refer to myself as being part of a "fandom" for anything. I see myself as more an appreciator of doll art rather than a "fan".

Karhys

09-11-2007, 04:54 PM

Augh, Cassiel, I have to say I've been horribly guilty of doing that to GW. While I did watch some of the actual show, I found that I didn't really enjoy it and preferred to just read and write the fanfic. To my credit, I WAS 13 and it was my first foray into yaoi and fanficcing. These days, I like to pretend it never happened. D: *hangs head in shame*

Hey, don't worry about it! I don't feel that anyone is ever responsible for the things they did when they were 13. ;) In addition, a lot of people enjoyed those fics, both the writing and reading of them. If someone enjoys something, then it has some sort of merit. :)
(Merely for me though, I just became overwhelmed by the sheer number of them compared to what else was being written at the time, and the amount of them that focused on the boys giving each other fluffy puppies or romantic Xmas presents, when the actual show was focused on war and death. But maybe I think too much about these things, or take them too seriously. ;))

In my view, being a fan of something doesn't automatically make someone a member of its associated fandom. For example, I love the manga Saiyuki, but I have absolutely no involvement with other Saiyuki fans, either online or in real life, so I'm not part of Saiyuki fandom.

Ahh, very true. I am a fan of many, many things, but there are only a certain number of fandoms that I participate in (or have participated in in the past). Oddly though, for me, I think of many of the others as fandoms but still think of ABJDs as a hobby. I guess fandom (in it's current usage) is such a newly coined term that the meaning has not settled and means many different things to many people.
(Then again, there are also plenty of much older words that mean different things to different people - and even words that change over time like gay = happy to gay = homosexual. So maybe fandom will always mean very different things to different people!)

I realize many people have very positive experiences in fandoms and enjoy them, but to me the word "fandom" connotes a lot of weird social drama and Encyclopedia-Dramatica type stuff.

I think this sums up the current discomfort that people have with using 'fandom', particularly if they want to get away from that sort of thing or feel that that sort of thing has no place in their 'hobby'. I know that at times I find the negative connotations of 'fandom' to be somewhat off-putting, even having been a part of fandoms in the past where I've largely not come across such behaviour. Maybe it's merely that we want to think ourselves better than that? Or want others to think we're better than that? XD
(But heck, there's drama everywhere.. even in personal friendships and relationships. Just because one friend causes nothing but drama in our friendship doesn't mean that I am leery of all friendships. I guess I should learn to apply this to my feelings over the word 'fandom'? ;))

Kyrie Arashi

09-11-2007, 05:31 PM

I use hobby and fandom as two different things... Hobby, for me, is something you do in your spare time for fun. When I think of fandom, I think of a heavy obsession, fads, and competition. Seems like when I hear someone talk about fandom, places like 4chan pop into mind, but that's just in my mind... Of course, when I hear fandom I usually think of anime and cosplay.

I like keeping my hobbies (and I consider my manner of cosplaying a hobby) out of the fandom spectrum. My sister, I would consider a fandom-type cosplayer. Being perfect and competitive is extremely important to her in cosplay and I hate it.

I'll stick with calling it a hobby...

shiroikun

09-11-2007, 11:17 PM

I think its art? but I agree to call it a hobby. its same thing like u having a pet, you get to look for lots info about them, try to make them happy (?) buy cloth, food (?) play game, take picture with them. and u can paint them, and talk to them (?) created a story with them as model ^^ that's my opinion

Ragsolith

09-12-2007, 09:38 AM

I've always considered it a hobby because of all that's involved in it with upkeep and whatnot. The world "fandom" now has a lot of negative implications in a lot of areas.

psyence

09-12-2007, 10:32 AM

Fandom, I think, is a sweeping term that I guess could apply to the hobby - after all, we get together, write stories, make art, work on our dolls and then gather together to cluck about it. :XD

Having said that, ABJDs are much more about personal expression than about "Oh hey look, isn't so-and-so really adorable! *cue a hundred fanfics running along the same lines*". I love my dolls, and I love their stories, but I don't expect anybody else to even care about it, let alone enjoy anything I create with them.

The crossovers with the anime and J-Pop fandoms are what makes me a little wary - for instance, I really want a hide doll, but if I get one and post photos, I don't want to hear 200 comments saying "OMG I LOVE HIDE!!11". I want to hear if my photos are good or bad; I want to hear if people think I did a good job. I think such things would tick me off, which is one of the main things keeping me from getting a doll I really want. Apart from that, I don't feel any pressure from the community at all. XD I'll do what I want because I want to do it and not because I feel I ought to.

Overall, I'd call it a hobby; it's just a hobby we all share and can enjoy together.

Mich

09-12-2007, 12:19 PM

Tbh, to me it doesn't really matter what the terms are for it. I love the dolls I have and that's all that matters to me.Too many people want to put labels on things to understand them, and if they want to do that then that's fine by me, but it's not really something I tend to do myself.As it can mean different things to different people.

bluegirlwish

09-12-2007, 01:18 PM

It depends on the person, honestly. I think for some, it does travel into Fandom rather than being a Hobby. I would consider a Hobby something people tend to be less outspoken about, and tinker with- like modifications, sewing, etc. But for some, their dolls are a fandom, where they enjoy their dolls like one would enjoy... I don't know, fashion models? They're a hard comparison! ^^;

rottenlullaby

09-12-2007, 03:25 PM

I guess I don't really know what a 'fandom' is? hah. For me its a hobby, I take photos, customize and play with my dolls so its more interactive with the dolls themselves. I do practipacte heavily in the online community so maybe that makes it more of a fandom. I suppose depending on how you look at it could be a little of both now couldent it?

blackwingsblackheart

09-12-2007, 07:43 PM

I'm kind of sad to read about people disliking the word "fandom" and associating it with faddism and drama. Science fiction fandom has been my home for about 20 years, and many of my friends have been SF fans for as long as I've been alive. It's as important to me as church/synagogue/temple is to mainstream types--the center around which my social life revolves.

To me, fandom=culture. Anyone may read a book or manga, watch a movie or series, or collect dolls, for that matter. Fans are the ones who create a community around one or more of those activities and, more often than not, take "ownership" of the source material through fanfic, fanart, costuming, discussion, critique and analysis.

It's unfortunate that "fandom" has become associated with negative stereotypes, but my feeling is that we're seeing a transformation of fandom similar to the wave of femmefans that "Star Trek" drew to SF cons. The anime/game/media kids are coming in with *high* energy and plenty of teenage drama 'n' angst, and annoying us grownups who want to sit around quietly drinking beer and talking about xenophobia/xenophilia in Golden Age SF literature. Eventually, they'll grow up a bit, settle down some, and start contributing their energy to running organizations that we're too tired to work at. I'm doing my best to convert my older friends to anime with judiciously-chosen titles (we've moved from Miyazaki to the films of Satoshi Kon, yay!), and I'm sheltering them from obnoxious manifestations of otakudom until they're good and hooked...err, ready.

For me, if there wasn't any kind of culture or social network around BJDs, I probably would still be clicking on Moon's picture on the Luts website, saying, "Oh, pretty" and never going any further. Fortunately, there are places like Resinality and DoA to share stories, experiences, ideas and techniques, and maybe even get to know people. So, I'm not ashamed to call myself a "dollfan", because what I want from dolls isn't a solitary hobby of sewing costumes, taking pictures or whatever, but a community of interesting individuals who happen to have the doll hobby in common.

EDIT: sorry if this rambled a bit. I know I'm conflating SF fandom and anime fandom with the doll hobby/fandom, but since there's so much overlap between the three in my social circles, this post ended up talking about them all.

avacado

09-12-2007, 10:29 PM

Dezarii

09-13-2007, 01:40 AM

I've collected dolls for 20 years and always thought of it as a hobby. Then in the last few years suddenly I find myself part of a 'fandom'? I don't like it.

I tend to think of 'fandom' as being about specific things or people, like tv shows or particular writers that one is a fan of. I think one could be a fan of a specific doll artist, but not just a 'doll fan' in general, I don't think it applies.

nakitama

09-13-2007, 02:19 AM

As a die-hard Formula 1 fan, I'm in the same position! But in my experience, the only people that declare themselves to be in the F1 fandom are young, internet-users, and usually writing RPS (real-person slash) about the drivers. They have less to do with the technicalities of the sport and much more to do with a romantic view of it. So I think that the word is, as Loki says, to do with something intangible like internal characters. And as Bel says, there's no direct involvement... it's something you imagine and build on until you end up with a creation (like a RPS story about, say, Fernando Alonso and Nico Rosberg) which has very little to do with the facts, but which you have taken and made your own, and plugged all your fantasies into.
For the love of god, tell me you're kidding? Where's a barf face when I seriously need it. ;P

PS- F1 fan too ;3

s2kitty

09-13-2007, 07:23 PM

Since collecting BJDs has enabled me to do many of my hobbies (sewing, sculpting, painting, etc.) I think of it as the perfect hobby for me. I'm not really wanting to call it a fandom because I don't really have fanart or fanfiction about my dolls - nor do I see a lot of that. Although there are those that use their dolls to create characters from their favorite stories and anime. It really depends on the individual I think. Since all my kids are currently my own characters, I don't think of them as fandom. Does that make sense?

Wotan

09-13-2007, 07:38 PM

If you collect, customize or create bjds, it's a hobby.
That pretty well sums up my view of the "hobby" aspect.

My experience of fandoms, over the past ten years, has been that--I'm generalizing like mad, of course, and there are most definitely exceptions--they are ephemeral, faddy, and driven by herd mentality.

Sorry to cut out so much of your excellent post, but this succinctly expressed my view of fandom. It's the Next Big Thing.

Actually, I can cite a number of instances in fandoms that I have been in in the past where people have written fanfic about the characters of a series without ever having watched that series. They based their perceptions of the characters off of other fanfic that they had read about them.

I've seen this tendency referred to as "fanon"-- fan canon, if you will. The particular nomenclature is from the excellent-- not to mention gleefully entertaining Television Tropes and Idioms site; read the specific definition here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.Fanon), but by all means check out the rest of the site. Good times.

Faireyangel

09-13-2007, 10:30 PM

Eek, Wotan, I love that site. ^_^ 'tis made of awesome.

For me a hobby can stand on its own whereas fandom will fade if left on it's own. I think to have a hobby you just need an interest and yourself, but to have a fandom you need a hobby, yourself and other people sharing your interest. ^_^

kersuru

09-14-2007, 12:24 AM

To me, BJD collecting is more of a hobby over all. If someone who is a fan of a company or of an artist, they'd purchase a doll for their collection, not out of fandom.

However, I see this hobby attracts fandom enthusiasts - people who are so overwhelmed and excited with the hobby and culture they snatch up the first dollfie they see.
I think if someone who buys without the intent to keep 'in their collection' is a fan of that item or community (like t.v shows, movies, or culture)

..I hope that made some sense.. <.<

rowena

09-14-2007, 06:00 AM

I really use both terms because while what I do with my actual dolls is my hobby, I'm also a fan of dolls and the social interaction is similar to that of the Harry Potter fandom in that people get together and talk about dolls, there are doll conventions, and message boards about it. I've always viewed a hobby as something you do alone and a fandom to apply to the actions of the whole of the group of people interested in that subject. So I might say "My hobby is collecting BJD's.", but I would also say "I'm a member of the BJD fandom."

The term fandom has no negative connotations to me because I've been lucky to not have experienced a lot of the drama that seems to have made the term negative for so many people. And what drama I have been around, I've been able to realize that for the most part the majority of fans of anything are fairly sane people and therefore have not connected fandom with drama.

Catrina

09-17-2007, 04:23 AM

For me a hobby can stand on its own whereas fandom will fade if left on it's own. I think to have a hobby you just need an interest and yourself, but to have a fandom you need a hobby, yourself and other people sharing your interest. ^_^

I think you're right! What a great explanation!

When I think of a fandom event, I think of something with lots of social things such as contests, pajama parties, fun theme event ideas, etc. Even if you didn't really do anything related to dolls other than carry one with you, you'd have a blast with your friends.

A hobby event seems more "nuts and bolts," and less concerned with the social aspects of things. Hobby events can be so detail-oriented, they can be almost geeky. There might be a door prize raffle... but no wild nights staying up late.

Bandwidth Broad

09-17-2007, 07:04 PM

Wotan, excellent observations and fantastic site ... it bears study and contemplation! :) Rowena, I think you're right.

Whether we are more comfortable with the term "hobby" or "fandom" is entirely contingent upon our perception of each term. I, as so many others, interpret "fandom" in a slightly negative way. This negative perception is, btw, both cultivated and encouraged by the mass media, whose "eyes" and "ears" can be counted upon to show the strangest, wackiest, and most pathological "fan" related behaviors. (Think "furries" here. Beam me up, Scottie....)

Does that mean that as a "hobbiest" I'm not guilty of the kind of blind zealotry I have associated with fandom? Not at all, although I'd like to think that I carefully consider new acquisitions, that I accomplish what I have to do in my day before ascending into my daydream world of dolly plans (most of which I'll never have time to accomplish), and that if, heaven forbid, I should ever lose my house to fire, I would have the common sense to get my husband, kids, and pets out before I attempted to save the computers and the resin. ;-p

Kim

09-18-2007, 06:47 AM

I've never considered these dolls my hobby and more an extension of my involvement in anime fandom. So to me, these dolls are a fandom thing. They're essentially 3D fanart I've commissioned of characters that I love. I go to conventions devoted to these dolls, take pictures, and talk to other owners about said dolls. Same thing I do with my anime fandom, only this is about a specific type of doll versus a specific anime show.

I photograph them because I enjoy sharing pictures of them but I derive no intrinsic enrichment from the actual act of photographing them, so I don't see a hobby aspect to the photography, nor do I sew or customize my dolls myself.

DimWitted

09-18-2007, 02:00 PM

I've always been a collector of one thing or another. So this is just another hobby for me.

saranilla

09-19-2007, 03:31 AM

BJD's started as a fandom and will always have that base, but more and more people who are joining now are collectors and hobbyists. That is why it is growing so large so fast. I just hope that the manufacturers do not start overloading us with similar looking dolls. I hope they can keep the freshness. I still love some of the first dolls that have an anime look to them, they are after all the mom's of the SD world.

bagofspiders

09-19-2007, 10:37 AM

The BJD realm works in different ways for different folks as can clearly be seen in this thread. Function really seems to be fluid for a lot of folks, and that's excellent--these dolls do serve a myriad of purposes for a wide variety of folks. I'd say my girls are more my hobby, though. My dolls are for my own enjoyment; I don't dabble in fics or cons or anything else. I just...play with my dolls. Heh.

Soula

09-19-2007, 12:26 PM

Dolls are a hobby for me. I have nothing to do with any kind of fandom, on or off the internet. It's interesting to read everyone's opinions here, though. But I do not feel part of any 'ABJD fandom', or anything.

Songblade

09-19-2007, 06:46 PM

I'd call it a hobby... fandom seems very specific to a handful of things (shipping, role playing ,etc) whereas a hobby is extremely personalized and unique. If a large group of people fell in love with one particular doll, I'd say that one doll had a fandom. Otherwise, the hands-on factor of doll collecting seems more of a hobby nature than fandoms as they were previously thought of.

catcooter

09-20-2007, 03:04 AM

I have always considered it a hobby. When I first got into BJD's they were still new. Fandom to me has very negative connotations and I think the term got started when the hobby started really booming. When I think "fandom" I think more of people that might get into a hobby at the drop of a hat and drop out just as quick, which to me is frightening with this one because it is quite expensive. I love my dolls very much and I see fandom as more superficial, kind of like "fame", very fast and fleeting. Does that make any sense?

Shankula

09-21-2007, 07:59 AM

I'll always call it a 'hobby' - I may be completely wrong in my definition, but a fandom seems to be about (or seems to have become about) the celebrities of the interest/hobby rather than about the hobby itself. I enjoy the practical details of BJD ownership - sewing, posing, photography, etc - and I do that without needing to know any 'big names' in the community. I very much enjoy the community, but I see it more as a circle of friends who share and advise and generally have fun together, than as a popularity contest.

I think I'm probably biased by the negative connotations of the word 'fandom' that I keep seeing on the internet. That's probably another reason why I avoid using it! :sweat

I honestly can't think of a better way to put it than what you said--when I think of a hobby, I think of having fun...when I think of a fandom, I think of people being obsessed. Whether that is accurate or not, that is the first thing that pops into my head--just like the people who have a kind of 'brand fandom' within the BJD world--they are almost brand nazis in their obsession with the superiority of their favorite brand, that it sucks the fun out. Please don't hit me with sticks.

Kim

09-21-2007, 09:10 AM

Fandom to me has very negative connotations and I think the term got started when the hobby started really booming. When I think "fandom" I think more of people that might get into a hobby at the drop of a hat and drop out just as quick, which to me is frightening with this one because it is quite expensive. I love my dolls very much and I see fandom as more superficial, kind of like "fame", very fast and fleeting. Does that make any sense?

The opposite holds true to me, as I see fandom, and I suppose fanaticism, as something that implies commitment. When you're a fan, you're in it for the long haul. I know people who have been following bands for longer than I have been alive, and know at least one person who has faithfully collected One Piece every week it has been published for the past 10 years. That's a lot of phonebook manga anthologies. Your stereotypical shut in otaku - they're all very devoted.

I don't think I would actually own any of these dolls if I did not have friends who were also involved. It's just not fun for me to own them in a vacuum because I don't like the hobby aspects that most doll owners enjoy. I just really love talking about them and plotting evil and using them to further my fan interests along with sharing all of this with my doll owning friends.

BlueSand09

09-23-2007, 04:45 PM

I think it can be both but it's more on hobby side. Because not all people have this hobby to be a fandom. The owner should be aware of everything about this and responsible when she or he will spend his money. Saving is a lot of hardwork and patience, if you're not serious about it you'll just loose hope and spend the money on other things...

I hope that I'm making sense in here ehehehe...

Tahiel

09-23-2007, 07:41 PM

Derr... I don't think BJD collecting is a 'fandom (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fandom)'.

Basically... Agreeing with this:

Hmm. I'm probably too sleepy to articulate this properly, but I see it this way: A fandom can have elements that equal a hobby. A hobby can be an integral part of a fandom. A hobby is NOT a fandom.

Personally, I think that ABJDs are more of a hobby. They're independent, in my opinion, of the other elements of fandom (a game, a book, a TV show--most 'fandoms' are linked in some way to a cohesive plot, which BJDs are not).

So, while cosplay is a hobby that is part of fandom, ABJDs are simply a hobby.

If you collect, customize or create bjds, it's a hobby. If you're a fan of a company, mold or individual doll that you don't necessarily intend to collect, it's a fandom. It can be either or both.

I think BJD collecting lacks a hook to become a 'fan of', so unless you are into one specific company or mold, it's really more a hobby. Especially if you get into customizing/sewing and all the things that come with a BJD...

Also, I personally think the term 'collecting' would describe it pretty much as nothing other than a hobby. After all, even collecting memorabilia of something, like say, Star Wars, is a hobby.

IMHO. :)

Pirate Reine

09-23-2007, 09:13 PM

It is a hobby, but I can see how its becoming a fandom for others. But the fandom aspect and I agree with comments on a previous post that it can have negative connotations, well so does the hobby aspect of it, but fandoms are more with celebrities and entertainment. Granted people have created dolls inspired on their favorite celebrity but I don't know I don't agree with the fandom part, it becomes more like an obsession that can lead to an unhealthy obsession that can lead to spending alot of money just fulfill an image of your celebrity or you favorite company. This can just lead to big issues if you aren't financially stable.
The Hobby is just calmer..fandom has the word "fan" in it and that just...some other wild world. I prefer the Hobby!

clea

09-23-2007, 11:59 PM

This is really an interesting topic. One of the things i've noticed going over the previous comments is that as people kick around (sometimes HARD) the term "fandom", the internet comes up quite a bit. If we think of a fandom without the internet and an online community, there is a lot less tension between "fandom" and "hobby". Associating an activity with huge boards and LJ drama doesn't make an activity more or less enduring per se. It's simply too soon to tell how faddish BJDs are for the majority of collectors.

My participation in SF and comic book fandom precedes the age of the internet, and i have no problem with saying my BJD collection is a hobby, and secondarily a fandom. In general i agree with Cynthia's well put comments concerning hobbies being about things. But for a lot of people, creating characters with BJDs is as much of a narrative or storytelling activity - not so much in my case, but it's pretty common. For me, collecting and customizing is mostly a hobby, but i do spend a great deal of time on various doll boards when i have no available cash to shop, and the meetups which are so important to me happen because of those boards. And actually, if i hadn't been online i wouldn't have been able to research, choose and purchase my dolls. i blog about dolls from time to time, as well as doing doll panels at science fiction conventions. So i'd say my interest is hobby AND fandom.

thirstyangel

09-24-2007, 06:28 AM

Associating an activity with huge boards and LJ drama doesn't make an activity more or less enduring per se.

A good point.

That is why I find it next to impossible to separate the hobby from the fandom. I think BJD the hobby has a fandom, and most of us are part of it whether we see it that way or not.

I don't understand why the popular opinion (if this thread is anything to go by :sweat ) is that of the hobby being, almost always, a more enduring thing than the fandom. I've had hobbies I no longer indulge in; I've also been an enduring long-time fan of many things. With the existence of the Internet, I believe both phenomena have become closely related, and especially so for those whose first (and constant) contact with BJDs is through (seeing pictures of BJDs on) the web. I believe, in BJD collecting, for better or for worse, the fandom drives the hobby. I'm not sure, however, if the reverse is true.

In any case, it disturbs me that people seem to think "BJD the hobby" is a better (and truer? and more noble?) thing to have than "BJD the fandom" because it seems to me that most of those who see BJD as a hobby likens the BJD to being something a lot more than a thing or activity one simply enjoys having or doing in one's free time. BJDs are perceived not merely as objects of art, but objects of art to which you can apply your own creative and artistic vision and endeavors, in order to create something of even greater artistic value through the process of customization.

(Then again, an object of art should be a finished product appreciated for what it is, shouldn't it? One would think it's not right to paint over a Van Gogh. Sometimes I feel that, as BJD owners, we tend to elevate the BJD to unnecessarily lofty heights of artistry it does not truly deserve.)

On the other hand, in referring to BJD collecting as a fandom, one may be seen to possess only shallow and unreliable connections to the activity, to have little real appreciation for the historical and artistic value of these resin dolls.

Is the ability to see BJD collecting not only as a hobby but a fandom as well something to be discouraged?

:sweat

Wotan

09-24-2007, 03:48 PM

Is the ability to see BJD collecting not only as a hobby but a fandom as well something to be discouraged?

:sweat
Not at all. In fact, I emphasized the word "see" in what you said above because I think it's a key point. A lot of this debate boils down to how we personally define a "hobby" and a "fandom". Mostly, it's semantics, at least as far as the term "fandom" goes.

I see "fandom" as being a term that has a negative connotation. I can't deny that the fan part does conjure certain uncomfortable images to mind-- in a word, Trekkies. But that's not the part that makes me frown at the idea. "Fandom", to me, suggests something beyond the individual's investment of time, money, or care in a hobby or interest. It suggests a kind of herd mentality that, in my experience, brings out the worst in a person and quashes the outside-the-box thinking that leads to some of the most rewarding growth in a field.

Zully Quirke

09-24-2007, 05:47 PM

Is the ability to see BJD collecting not only as a hobby but a fandom as well something to be discouraged?

:sweat

That's an excellent question, and I don't think it's one so easily answered. The obvious answer for me is no; I've always been an advocate of letting people do what they want or what they feel is right so long as it doesn't harm themselves or others. The problem comes, of course, when one gets so involved in fandom that they start ignoring reality for it. I know several people in various fandoms (Avatar, Harry Potter, anime, etc) who have completely lost a sense of reality and become absorbed by their own fantasy world. And I'm sure there are doll owners who have done the same thing.

But then, I'm not entirely sure that's a fandom problem. It's an escapism problem. People who are prone to getting lost in their own realities would find a way to do so with or without their particular fandom (or hobby, really).

So I suppose my answer is inherently? No. Nothing wrong with thinking of dollfies as a fandom. The only problem would be if you allowed yourself to be taken over by it. ;)

Baakay

09-26-2007, 03:10 PM

This looks as though it's been fairly well covered :). But yes, to me it is a hobby.

My version of the hobby also includes a little bit of fandom, since there's no getting around the obvious fact that my Kenshin and Kaoru dolls spring directly from my being an anime fan. But given the very long tenure of my love affair with those characters, I think I can sneak under the radar as not being "faddy." I hope ;)

eppieblack

09-26-2007, 11:46 PM

I'm kind of sad to read about people disliking the word "fandom" and associating it with faddism and drama. Science fiction fandom has been my home for about 20 years, and many of my friends have been SF fans for as long as I've been alive...

To me, fandom=culture. Anyone may read a book or manga, watch a movie or series, or collect dolls, for that matter. Fans are the ones who create a community around one or more of those activities and, more often than not, take "ownership" of the source material through fanfic, fanart, costuming, discussion, critique and analysis.

.

[Emphasis mine}

Blackwingsheart, I agree with your view completely. Including the sadness that is seeing what connotations some people bring to the word fandom :cry To me fandom has always been about building culture out of mass produced material, which, is why I would apply the word fandom to the ABJD sphere. By the same token "hobbyists" are more technically oriented and obsessed about pursuing their interests in the "right way" and collectors are merely uber consumers.

I realize this is a fandom-centric analysis, but fandom has been a second home for me too for my entire life. I guess the words take on different connotations in that context.

hobbywhelmed

09-27-2007, 03:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwingsblackheart View Post
I'm kind of sad to read about people disliking the word "fandom" and associating it with faddism and drama. Science fiction fandom has been my home for about 20 years, and many of my friends have been SF fans for as long as I've been alive...

To me, fandom=culture. Anyone may read a book or manga, watch a movie or series, or collect dolls, for that matter. Fans are the ones who create a community around one or more of those activities and, more often than not, take "ownership" of the source material through fanfic, fanart, costuming, discussion, critique and analysis.

.
[Emphasis mine}

Blackwingsheart, I agree with your view completely. Including the sadness that is seeing what connotations some people bring to the word fandom To me fandom has always been about building culture out of mass produced material, which, is why I would apply the word fandom to the ABJD sphere. By the same token "hobbyists" are more technically oriented and obsessed about pursuing their interests in the "right way" and collectors are merely uber consumers.

I realize this is a fandom-centric analysis, but fandom has been a second home for me too for my entire life. I guess the words take on different connotations in that context.
__________________

Add me to the list of people who have spent most of her adult life in one fandom or another. Since there really isn't a "meta-fandom" that's homogenous throughout, but subcultures like SF fandom, media fandom, anime fandom, costuming fandom, cosplay fandom, gaming fandom, each with their own conventions, "jargon", activities, social circles and on-line communities.

People outside fandoms, mainstreamers, "mundanes" always look down on the term fandom, but how else could you find yourself hanging out with a group with ages ranging from 18- to 60+, all creatively alive and excited over the same interests?

Frankly, I don't think the problem of these things absorbing most of your waking time is a case of escapism. For some maybe, but I think for more it's that happy giddiness when you not only find something that gives you happiness, but you find people who are also into the same thing, who get as excited over it as you do, who you can talk to about it without having to give a tutorial first. Or a justification. Or a note from a psychiatrist--

Nymphetish

09-27-2007, 04:56 AM

I just don't see it as a fandom. There are a couple of BJD forums that have a close community, but fandom just doesn't come to mind.

celestia

09-27-2007, 05:15 AM

Fandom: something you admire for who/what it is, but does not belong to you because no matter how much you alter it; it is still the property of someone other than you- yet you are still infatuated by it or so some extent.
Hobby: It belongs to *you* and you spend your spare time working on it.

Though not completely accurate or eloquently written, this is kind of the concept i follow when differentiating between a hobby vs a fandom.
If you love another doll on the forum that doesn't belong to yo; you can be a fan of that doll. If you like the sculpt, you can be a fan of the sculpt. If you collect the sculpt and proceed to occupy your spare time focussed on the particular sculpt in hand- it is now your hobby.

s2kittysmom

09-28-2007, 03:52 AM

Daniel Falls

09-28-2007, 10:09 PM

I consider myself in a "hobby," since I categorize Ball-Jointed Dolls with the customization, creation, and artistic aspects of this hobby. From my perspective, fandom is more of a passive passion where people appreciate and admire something or someone else's work whereas hobbies are more hands on and we admire our own work, our dolls. With all of the work and creativity I've seen people put into their dolls, I see these dolls as more of an creative hobby.

gayle

09-29-2007, 05:29 PM

It's a hobby which also has a fandom subculture.

hobbywhelmed

09-29-2007, 05:43 PM

It's a hobby which also has a fandom subculture.

There ya go.

It's a hobby if you go to an event hoping to see other dolls. Or see dolls and talk to dealers and sellers of related services.

It's a fandom if you go to an event to meet up with the people you know who have dolls so you can yak dolls and gush over each others' dolls, and walk about with your dolls and not feel self-conscious. (Sitting in a room quietly drooling with 300 other people over the latest movie of something or a talk by a handsome actor in something, is really little different from squeeing over the gorgeous faceup or outfit of someone else's doll, ne?)

Dark Chocolat

09-29-2007, 07:17 PM

When I am with my friends or by myself messing with my dolls, it's a hobby. When I'm on forums and worrying about the reaction of a mass of people, it's fandom. So, when it's personal doll time, hobby. Large mass o' people time, fandom.

Captain Schlumpy

09-29-2007, 09:03 PM

I've never thought about this! I usually call it my BJD obsession! I think I lean more toward hobby just because I can hold them in my hands.

kittymaru

09-29-2007, 09:45 PM

It's a hobby which also has a fandom subculture.

I agree with this statement completely!

I personally think of it as a hobby. That's what it's about for me. I have the dolls I like because I like them and I also enjoy doing face-ups, mods, sewing outfits, etc. I remember when I first got into these dolls though, and one person I met was really into being "famous" in the community (in her case infamous...) but really dwelled a lot on making her dolls look a specific way so that other people would notice them. In my opinion, that made it more of a fandom to her, whereas for me the most important thing is that I like the dolls I personally have and can enjoy and appreciate the way other people express themselves through the hobby - if that makes any sense.

earthspirits

09-29-2007, 10:20 PM

For me personally, my love of bjd's is a hobby, since I have collected pretty things on and off since childhood, and have a wide variety of interests (my interests changing and evolving over the years, of course). The term, "fandom" (at least to me) is more geared toward appreciation of a film, television series, actor, musical group, celebrity, play, etc. So for me, dolls are definitely one of my favorite hobbies (especially the arty stuff, like customization), while (for example), I consider myself a fan of my favorite television shows, such as Doctor Who, Lost, Heroes, etc.

Note: It doesn't bother me what other folks want to call their involvement in the bjd community, since I'm pretty easy going. :) To each their own! Especially as long as we're all having fun!! :yey

Best wishes, :heart
earthspirits

Baakay

09-30-2007, 01:14 AM

Frankly, I don't think the problem of these things absorbing most of your waking time is a case of escapism. For some maybe, but I think for more it's that happy giddiness when you not only find something that gives you happiness, but you find people who are also into the same thing, who get as excited over it as you do, who you can talk to about it without having to give a tutorial first. Or a justification. Or a note from a psychiatrist--

Bing-bong! You get the prize.

There is nothing so uncomfortable as living and working among people who may be perfectly delightful but have almost nothing in common with you. I suspect many of them here (here as in "on the street where I live", not here in BJD-land) would label this as "obsession" as opposed to either fandom or a hobby. I prefer to think of it as a much more pleasant alternative to dealing with a therapist.

(Because my therapist was a wonderful person, but hardly a work of art like the dolls are! ;) )

bunnydots

09-30-2007, 05:51 AM

People outside fandoms, mainstreamers, "mundanes" always look down on the term fandom, but how else could you find yourself hanging out with a group with ages ranging from 18- to 60+, all creatively alive and excited over the same interests?

I don't care so much if some people who have BJDs want to look at it as a "fandom" or put it in the same context as other fandoms that they've enjoyed in their lives ---as long as they recognize that not everyone in the BJD hobby has participated in "fandoms", or at least not the types of fandoms that are generally associated with the word (e.g. cosplay, Harry Potter, anime, etc. - I've been in some groups with a wide age range of people all creatively enjoying the same interest, but the word "fandom" isn't generally applied to the particular interests I've been involved with). Therefore, to some of us, imposing the "fandom" construct is like making someone join a whole alien culture world just to enjoy having and customizing some dolls.

hobbywhelmed

09-30-2007, 06:10 AM

beachgirl

09-30-2007, 06:55 AM

Definately a hobby for me; I've collected dolls all my life. Get to do creative things with them, sewing and knitting for them, photographing them, collecting props, whatever. I do some anime tees and such for them so there is some crossover, but that's it. Of course, "fan" is short for fanatic, so I guess I could be classed as a BJD fanatic!

bunnydots

09-30-2007, 04:49 PM

Well, since bunnydots quoted me, I'll just say that this is an opinion thread, and nobody's trying to impose anything. This is an exploration of outlooks, not an attempt to officially define anything. Of course, it's only natural that we each speak from our own experiences, and people posting here appear to be quite recognizant of the differences in experience and opinion, and respectful of the same.

(Shameless segue: Your avatar--your bunn? A cutie!)

Yes, and I didn't mean to imply that by discussing how fandoms were a positive in your life on this thread, that's an imposition or disrespectful of people who don't participate in them. By contrast, if I came to Resinality and it had in big letters across the top of the portal, "The BJD FANDOM BOARD" I might be hesitant about wanting to post. Just like some people might be hesitant if it were labeled "The BJD COLLECTOR BOARD" or "BJD HOBBY BOARD" because of the connotations of those words.

I'm all for less labeling and more just playing with dolls :) I think a lot of the time what we do with our dolls, which varies a lot person to person, is subject to too much categorization and analysis on these forums. Let's all just enjoy in the way we want to.

And thanks for the compliment on the bunny - this is a photo I picked up on some other forum years ago and have used as an avatar ever since, though I didn't use it on another doll forum because I was afraid it would be rejected for not looking "dollie" enough. ;)

Taco

09-30-2007, 05:31 PM

Bing-bong! .

There is nothing so uncomfortable as living and working among people who may be perfectly delightful but have almost nothing in common with you. I suspect many of them here (here as in "on the street where I live", not here in BJD-land) would label this as "obsession" as opposed to either fandom or a hobby. I prefer to think of it as a much more pleasant alternative to dealing with a therapist.

Couldn't agree more. I get a long fine with the people I work with, but have little in common with any of them. I'm pleasant to my coworkers, but not terribly social, because I have nothing to talk about with them. This was especiallly apparent at the last departmental lunch I got stuck attending :dead

Being very involved in hobbies like bjds, also connects me to people who share my interests--people I can actually have interesting conversations with. As a shy person, I find it easier to make friends and talk to people I don't know through a shared activity.

As for hobby vs fandom--I always considered it a hobby, but that's more because I was unfamiliar with the term fandom until a friend of mine got into writing fanfic. I don't really think of the word fandom with a negative conotation, because within any group of people there will be folks who are obnoxious twits, and people who are great. It doesn't matter if you call it a hobby, a fandom, or whatever. I think I agree with the people who have said that it's a hobby with fandom elements.

Rhian

10-01-2007, 12:27 AM

Having thought on all this some more, and having read through the thread, I'm coming to the conclusion that my main 'problem' with fandom is the word itself. Fandom. Faaaaandom. I just don't like saying it! :p I completely agree that the ABJD hobby has major elements of fandom in it, but I refuse to call it a fandom, because it sounds so awful when enunciated aloud. Even typing it makes me wince slightly. (Yes, I know, I'm a hopeless case... *_*)

Janne

10-01-2007, 12:54 AM

I've been thinking about this for several days now, and while I consider my involvement with dolls a hobby - mostly for the hands-on elements, I agree that there are fandom aspects to the dollery too - big name artists, sculptors, and clothing designers, etc.

I've often caught myself saying I am a "fan" of someone's face-ups or clothes, or photos, or even particular dolls.

So I guess, for me, it's both.

ravendolls

10-04-2007, 02:28 AM

thirstyangel

10-04-2007, 04:43 AM

I would consider it more a Hobby than a Fandom.
Fandom implies (at least to me) a passive thing, you watch/look at/admire from afar without participating. Hobby means you get your hands dirty. Since I have dolls and I muck about with them, it's a hobby for me.

That's an interesting interpretation!

For me, fandom doesn't mean passive but active participation. A hobby is what you do by your lonesome and a fandom is what you do when you interact with others who have the same hobby, either by meeting one another offline or online, to talk about the hobby, to share knowledge and ideas about the hobby, etc. That's why I've always seen BJD as a hobby and a fandom, at least for all of us who are here, actually talking about it. We are not just BJD collectors but fans as well. ;)

Gelfling

10-06-2007, 12:05 PM

It's a hobby. To me, a hobby is a pastime something you spend time and money on that gives you enjoyment. Fandom is a fanatical liking or strong appreciation of something more specific - like a genre, a person, a band. I might be an Araki fan but I'm a BJD hobbyist, if that's even a word. :)

Kit

10-09-2007, 01:39 PM

It seems like the whole of collecting bjds in general is more of a hobby. But, people inside of a hobby can create fandoms over certain companies, molds, or faceup artists (etc).

I've been a fan of other things before, but I never got too far into internet fandoms... so I guess I don't understand the negative connotations very well, but it seems like a fandom is more about obsession over a certain thing to the exclusion of other things. Is there more to it?

slrphebos

10-10-2007, 04:39 AM

I say it a little of both. Hobby in that is what this is for me. I spend money and do this in my free time and makes me happy. That is what all my other hobbies are. Fandom cause I have to admit the dolls are heavily influenced by anime/manga and there are some in the hobby that are doing this because right now it's "cool" to be into BJDs.

syrinx

10-11-2007, 05:14 PM

The "hobby" is what I personally do with my dolls, the "fandom" is everything I do in the forums.

Just how I see it. Your mileage may vary.

bunnyscotch

11-16-2007, 10:48 PM

it's an obsession! (to quote Eurythmics!):doh

fitz

11-18-2007, 02:18 AM

A hobby, but with its fanatics- umm I meant fans.:sweat

Rem

11-24-2007, 11:02 AM

I call it a "hobby" when refering to the actual act of buying/selling/customizing the dolls, and I call it a "fandom" when refering to the people and our conversations/activities/wank, I.E. buying a new CP Kid is part of the hobby, and writing about it in an email to another doll friend is part of the fandom.

Of course, I apply the same definitions/usage to anime, manga, and the like, not just BJD's.

ready2rokk

11-25-2007, 09:12 PM

I would say its a hobby rather than a fandom because when I hear the word fandom, I think shrieking fan girls :|.

violetpie

11-25-2007, 10:20 PM

Definately hobby...the photography, sewing, etc that I do...also just appreciating the craftsmanship of the people who make the dolls, and the amazing things people do with teir own dolls. To me it's all about creativity.

ArcaneMuse

11-25-2007, 10:36 PM

A serious hobby. I invest a lot of time and money (as we all do) in my own dolls. Many of these dolls I rarely see online or at meetups. Some of my dolls don't get to ever see the dolly public. I got into the hobby as way of combining a few of my other hobbies and skills into one. I paint, sew and take photographs. I use to use my kids as the guinea pigs; making them costumes, doing their make-up and hair and taking photos of them, but now that they are older they are very happy that I leave them alone and reserve the make believe for my dolls.

I see fandoms as admiring someone else's creation(s) and recreating them for yourself (like the anime fandom). I see the majority of BJD collectors interested in creating unique looks for their dolls and maybe only admiring someone's technique or style but not copying in entirety.

FunnyLori

01-02-2008, 09:55 AM

To me it's a hobby. I'm collecting, building, sewing, painting, drilling, and doing all sorts of things a fandom would not really have me doing.

Anavel

01-02-2008, 03:24 PM

For me it is a hobby at this time. :)

april

01-03-2008, 03:41 AM

I have no problems with fandom. I can be an admitted fan of lots of things. And I am a fan of certain bjds and artists and companies, etc., but I think the BJD-thing as a whole has got to be a hobby (a past-time, an interest... however you define it), because "BJD" is too abstract to actually be a fan of it... and some people aren't at all that "fanatical" about their BJD-love... They may just like one particular thing or other, or several, but nothing specific enough to be a fan, exactly.

So: Hobby.

But aspects of BJD-dom can be VERY much like many fandoms around. I don't care if people find this comfortable or not, but it ACTS very much like a fandom! Heheheh. :)

denise

01-03-2008, 08:39 AM

If you collect, customize or create bjds, it's a hobby. If you're a fan of a company, mold or individual doll that you don't necessarily intend to collect, it's a fandom.
I agree with that.

But actually I guess it's a mix of both, fandom and a hobby. Personally I see it more as a hobby. I think fandom might fade a bit, because you're a fan of something so you're following a movement or a trend and it's also based on someone popular maybe (like others said) while a hobby is more personal and based on something you collect/buy. It can be more active too (buying, customising) but then you also buy books, comics, manga magazines, figurines etc when you're a fan of a certain manga or an artist/band etc. (you buy their cds so that's something active, too). BJD collecting definitely has some fandom aspects, you inevitably admire a mold/doll company and if you buy lots of dolls from the same company, then you're somewhat of a fan, right? Not a fanatic maybe, but still a fan.

Seems I haven't figured out what it really is. :) It has aspects of both.

Carolyn.S

01-04-2008, 03:59 AM

Fandom and hobby are totally separate things to me. I am barely into anime, mostly just a bit of what's offered on the Cartoon Network's Adult Swim. I have never been involved in cosplay or anime cons. I am into BJD's because I love everything about them. Other than some having a more anime look and some being dressed as characters, it has nothing to do with anime for me.

Carolyn

hoshinokachi264

01-04-2008, 10:40 PM

i think that BJDs, like most people have said already, fall into both categories.

i think of a BJD owner as more of a collector if they purchase dolls to make clothing and accessories for them, or to take photos of their dolls and meet other people through them.

i don't really like the term "fandom" myself, it's been used alot on other doll forums as a way to represent people that are also into these dolls, that not everyone likes.

but i guess when it comes the "fandom" side of BJDs, what first comes to mind is girls that i have met that make their dolls gay jrockers, and are obsessed with male pairings. i don't mean that to sound offensive in anyway, but thats the first thing that comes to mind.

but another side of the "fandom" that i love personally is when people purchase dolls to represent personal characters. some people can be so creative with their dolls, they don't fall into the relm of the generic gay girly-boy emo dolls that i am used to seeing on some of the bigger doll forums. again i'm sorry that sounds a little harsh, but i have noticed that a lot of male dolls i have met seem to fall along those lines and i really love dolls that can be so unique and different you can't look away.

but maybe the creation of personal characters doesn't really fall into either category? either way i think that it's not black and white, and that the lines between this being a hobby and a fandom are often blurred, sometimes crating very unique results.

personally i see this as more of a hobby even though i am partial to certain companies and looks.

Amet

01-06-2008, 03:21 AM

I find I usually call it a hobby, but I treat it like my new fandom (which is really just code for 'thing I obsess over').

Rosebud

03-03-2008, 05:13 AM

I would call it a hobby, just because that's how I see it in my life.

Artemille

03-03-2008, 05:39 AM

I never thought of it before, but I would call it a hobby, even though it's kind of both for me. Collecting and customizing is a hobby, but chatting about it all the time, and looking at tons of pictures is kind of like a fandom.

Agnes

03-12-2008, 06:46 AM

I agree roughly with Reshana:

Fandom has to do with being a fan of someone's intellectual property: shows, books, character, comics -- someone else's universes fans enjoy, whether alone or together, online or off, which may or may not result in things such as fanart and fanfic.

A hobby is simply an activity one enjoys.

Collecting or painting or sewing for dolls is a hobby. Making a doll in the image of an anime character is a part of fandom. Writing fanfic about Volks's doll story arcs using their existing doll characters is fandom. And so on.

But words get misused and meanings get re-appropriated left and right. I want to stab myself every time someone uses "anthropmorphic" as if its just a euphemism for "furry". In fact I cried a little right now just thinking about it...

PeabodyRose

06-01-2008, 10:44 PM

Currently I'm in "fandom" mode. I do not yet own any dolls so I can't really call it a hobby. I'm just a fan atm. :(

clochette

06-04-2008, 06:57 AM

A hobby that has fingers that extend into other hobbies, like sewing/cosplay/jewelrymaking.

clem_and_mikas

06-07-2008, 05:44 PM

It's a hobby (a fun one at that) to me.

When I think fandom I think of doll drama..count me out of that mess.

Poppy

06-08-2008, 09:30 PM

Oh its a hobby for me..and a mini way of life i suppose..you know the saving the choosing the waiting lol...:kisses

royalprincess

06-09-2008, 08:11 PM

I think it's a person-to-person definition.
For me, I refer to BJD as my hobby rather then my fandom.^_^

fieraentara

06-09-2008, 08:22 PM

I would say it depends on the person, for me it's a hobby.

Lokita

06-10-2008, 08:35 AM

It can be both, but for me- it's just a hobby. My world doesn't revolve around my girls, I just like making them look pretty ^^

Mythago

06-23-2008, 01:45 AM

I enjoy watching anime, reading manga, reading science fiction and fantasy. I have never attended a con for any of those thing or for BJD owners. This is the first BJD oriented forum I have ever joined. I think of doll collecting as a hobby for me, but I have always considered myself a fan of those other activites (anime, manga, SF, fantasy), whether or not I attended cons or participated in online forums. I pretty much do all of these things alone. I enjoy the activites themselves rather than just the participation with other people with like interests. If there is a BJD "fandom", I am just discovering it and I don't consider myself to be a part of it. It can be different things to different people according to which aspect of it you pursue. To each his own..it's all good.

implacabilis anima

06-23-2008, 06:25 AM

Personally, I view it as a hobby over fandom since I do agree with some of the other previously mentioned views involving fandom as being a fan of something intangible. Either way, for me its considered a hobby. :)

Acidic_Apple

06-24-2008, 06:54 AM

Mmm... I always see dolls as a hobby/interest.

Fandom (to me) means the state of being a fan or all that encompasses fan culture and fan behavior in general, or the study of fans and fan behavior. (quoted from an online source)

Sometimes, online communities are seen as part of being in a "fandom" way, but I like to define online communities as forms of communication to share information/make friends/read different points of views/opinions.

I don't eat, breath or want to be an ABJD. I like to see my friends' dolls and etc , whether they are from online sources or meet-ups. Playing with my dolls makes me feel relaxed and happy (I think people would gasp when I say I see ABJD as a form of toy collection with many options). I cultivated other interests in the process of having dolls- photography, sewing, jewellery making and many more. Dolls make my dull life a bit more interesting.

Sorry in advance if my post is long and dull :D

bishieprince

07-03-2008, 10:07 AM

I enjoy the practical details of BJD ownership as a hobby in terms of sewing, posing, "decorating" them and drawing face up(tho I stink at it right now)..lolz..

jwegger

07-31-2008, 02:18 AM

I vote Hobby

haku23

08-06-2008, 07:49 AM

...Both ^^; For me it's both a fandom and a hobby. I fangirl over other people's dolls and follow events(to the best of my ability) within the community while still buying my own dolls. I will make things for my own dolls but also look at that of others even though I'm not obligated. So both for me! Ha ha I can never make a decision for just one thing!

pake4pleasanton

08-23-2008, 07:36 PM

I am a doll collector, ABJD is just another aspect of collecting dolls for me and also includes making clothes and doing face ups on the older ones but not on the event dolls.
I am older and work full time, so I don't have much time to spend on this hobby, plus I have 3 older children, etc. I think its hard when I have only so much time for my hobby.

lilie

08-28-2008, 04:32 AM

Definitely a hobby

pastelflower

08-30-2008, 03:02 AM

I've never really thought of dolls as a hobby. :o BJDs, for me, lead into other hobbies. I learned to make jewelry and sew clothes just for my girls and I plan to by a DSLR camera for photographs. :nod

I do spend way too much free time at work looking through gallery photos of other people's dolls, so maybe they are a hobby in themselves. :oops

I definitely don't think they're a fandom, though. I'm not a fan of anime, manga, or J-pop, so those things don't have any influence on me or my dolls.

topazrain

02-20-2009, 04:36 PM

I tend to disagree with many of you. I feel this is a question more profound and deserving of deeper thought rather than unanimously asseverating that it's nothing like those "animu nerds."

Fandom (from the noun fan and the affix -dom, as in kingdom, freedom, etc.) is a term used to refer to a subculture composed of fans characterized by a feeling of sympathy and camaraderie with others who share a common interest. A fandom can grow up centered around any area of human interest or activity. The subject of fan interest can be narrowly defined, focused on something like an individual celebrity; or wide, encompassing entire hobbies, genres or fashions. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fandom)

Fandoms are also characterized by people who spend a considerable amount of their time, energy and resources on an interest; have jargon specific to their interest and their interest alone; acclaimed celebrities within the interest, and aspects of their life dedicated solely to their interest.

I think that perfectly summarizes the ABJD hobby. Fandom is a very loose term and doesn't always connotate imagery of trek fans and animu nerds. Although it can. The wiki article even goes on to suggest that religious fanaticism can be considered a fandom but typically isn't regarded as such.

A hobby is a spare-time recreational pursuit.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby)

This can also be considered a hobby and even a career for some.

The line between fandom and hobby can be quite diffused at times, if there is such a line. If you were to collect baseball cards wouldn't that then make you a fan of said baseball cards or the collection thereof?

Perhaps the words craft and artisan suit us better? We prefer saying resin rather than plastic so why not artisan rather than hobbyist? I think what capsizes people the most about using words like fan and fandom is that it doesn't stroke our ego in the same way more inflated words would. I think that's a large part of why we use the terms we use. Perhaps we generate a lot of confusion for ourselves as to what we really are because we use such vague and tumid terminology.

A craft is a skill, especially involving practical arts. It may refer to a trade or particular art.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craft)

ABJD could be considered a practical art but then again they could not. Ceramics [these dolls could be considered ceramic as they are forged inorganic and nonmetallic elements] and sewing are integral to ABJD's; therefore, wouldn't ABJDs be considered a practical art composed of artisans?

[A]rtisan (from Italian: artigiano) is a skilled manual worker who crafts items that may be functional or strictly decorative, including furniture, clothing, jewelry, household items, and tools. The term can also be used as an adjective to refer to the craft of hand making food products, such as bread, beverages and cheese. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artisan)

Perhaps I dug too deep.

I for one think it's the responsibility of the individual to decide how they perceive their own involvement in the interest. I find it to be all of these things but most importantly for me, it's a hobby. A pursuit of pleasure that doesn't impede or obfuscate my life but wholly enhances it. :heart

Chibi_Fluffy

03-12-2009, 03:28 PM

I am tired of Fandoms actually....
I like them, but sometimes it is really boring to talk about something that for me as nothing to do with fandom, and people do not understand what I mean becasue of it....

Me it is a hobby, a way to express what is in my haed to represent my characters that I have created for my own story =3

Some people do not understnad when I mean original story, becasue of fandom.... XP

DanceCat

03-15-2009, 04:13 AM

My boyfriend is a maniac for anime such as The Avatar and Naruto as well as some others. I am not into it at all, I'll watch it if I happen to be in the room when it's on but I'm in no way interested.

When I originally got into these dolls it annoyed me greatly that they were so anime styled, but I just passed it off as typical of Oriental/Asian perception, so they made their dolls the same way they draw their cartoons.
But then I found Soom, Souldoll, Iplehouse and some others that strayed from the 'norm' of anime style and actually made their sculpts very realistic.

The dolls grew their appeal to me when I found these realistic styles. For me they are dolls having nothing to do with anime characters and the dolls I buy don't resemble anime style.
I plan to give my dolls storylines, but whether in length or in short, their stories will not resemble anime or ninjas or the like. I am American and much unfamiliar with Oriental traditions or stories. I'd like to know more about them but I don't. But even so, my dolls already have a storyline and I'll be sticking to it. :dance

ecstasydoll

03-15-2009, 06:52 AM

A love? A way of life? hmmmm more of a hobby I guess...

elphsnt

04-26-2009, 04:04 AM

Personally, I prefer not to use "labels". There are so many doll collectors in the world and why they collect dolls is truly individualized to them and their own backgrounds. With BJDs you do have the added element of Japanese culture and the wider spread of the "Asian aesthetic", however, you also have emerging American and European versions and, as pointed out above, a more Europeanized/Western style of BJDs.

So, even though people may consider themselves a part of a fandom and their dolls are an extension of that, I think it defines how they became doll collectors and shapes how they collect. But, I wouldn't define their collecting as fandom or hobby. I would define it as another version of doll collecting, however they choose to define that themselves.

To be honest, I don't think doll collecting can be neatly summed up and can get quite complex for many collectors. There are a lot who when asked "Why do you collect dolls?" cannot really answer the question. They will respond with how they collect or how they got into the doll collecting, but they don't really say why they chose to collect in the first place.

lilipipes

04-29-2009, 10:08 AM

Although, I bought Hyde out of fandom (I love L'Arc~en~Ciel and Hyde as a solo artist) I am seeing BJDs as a hobby. ^^

Fandom is just more on collecting stuff, but I'm speaking for myself. Stuff that you don't really touch but just keep and let them collect dust. XD I should know, I am a crazed fangirl. With BJDs you don't just simply collect and keep, you customize them and dress them and love them.

I am in point where I am trying to feel if I love my Hyde BJD because of the person or because he is my doll. I could lose my craze over the real Hyde but I believe that I'd be keeping Hyde BJD for the rest of my life. ^^

Tsukiyono

04-30-2009, 04:20 PM

I think it depends on the person. For some it may very well be a fandom, but for me, it's a hobby as the thing I love the most is sewing for them....and then snapping the photos of them looking cute in their new outfits, lol. ;)

MCPO_J117

05-16-2009, 08:42 PM

Hobby for me. Fandom is something entirely different - I'm just collecting and modifying the dolls in my spare time... but when I'm into a fandom I usually HAVE TO HAVE everything from said fandom *cough*Halo*cough*

Leenah

06-07-2009, 10:06 AM

It can be both, depending on where you are.

For the most part, it's a hobby. Even if you don't sew, photograph the dolls, etc, it can still be a hobby.

Since I do a lot with my dolls, like face-ups, sewing, and photography, it's most definitely a hobby for me.

However, when it comes to describing the way I feel about some companies, it can most certainly be a fandom.

Spring

06-12-2009, 01:02 AM

hobby 1 |ˈhäbē|
noun ( pl. -bies)
1 an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure

that nails what this doll thing is for me and it's no small thing

sheadeel

06-12-2009, 02:13 AM

I consider mine a hobby. I am not really looking to collect character dolls which I would consider fandom.

ruinchan

06-12-2009, 08:07 AM

To me, it started with a hobby. But I admit I have a preference over a certain company. This also happens with my circle of BJD-lovers friends who share the same preference. Dunno should it be called fandom? Hmm....

Maverynthia

06-12-2009, 10:55 AM

I feel a fandom, as said, is a fleeting thing. It's temporary. You can be a fan of something forever but the thing your a fan of usually "dies".
Anyone remember Sailor Moon? Some people might pipe up and say "I used to be a fan of that!" however they have moved on to the next latest and greatest anime. They changed their name from SailorSenshi16 to SSJ4Monkey9 to NarutoNinja556. It's a fleeting thing. True the fandom might last for a while because it refuses to die (Square Enix is guilty of this as well as Konami and Capcom) due to the fact someone makes new "official" material to be a fan of.
Also, fans are scary people. They are obsessed. (And in the case of Twilight fans...homicidal). You go into an anime convention and shout "NARUTO SUCKS!!" and see what happens. Even that, anime conventions are like, someone opened the doors to the patient rooms in a mental ward. Fan coming from fanatic.
Fans are specific in nature you are a fan of X.

Hobby on the other hand tends to have a lasting root. Hobbies CONTAIN fans. The hobby here is doll collecting. We all collect dolls. In this hobby we can be focused on a specific type of doll, Pullips-BJDs-Cabbage Patch Kids-Reborns. Our interest in these can be fleeting and BJDs might fade, but the doll collecting hobby will be there. Like collecting trains, N scale may die off, but there will be HO scale, Garden scale, Z scale, Lionel scale etc... or even a NEW scale. (Like how AoD made a new 1/2 scale.)

Are BJDs a fandom? Yes, we all like THESE certain dolls, we are a fan of the way they look, where they come from, what they are made of. You can see the fanatics in the way people will say one kind of doll is "cheap" and "isn't a real BJD". Basically "isn't a part of this fandom".
Like how some anime people get the name "Narutard" or "Saturday Morning Otaku". They aren't "real" fans because they only wear a head band and don't watch the show (they do it to fit in), and/or are so into the show they argue with everyone why Naruto is > (greater than) {other anime here}. While a "Saturday Morning Otaku" is someone why ONLY likes shows that are on US TV and are dubbed. They don't want to hear about (or have never heard of) "Tytania" or "Legend of the Galactic Heroes". Basically fanatics will argue amongst themselves what constitutes a fan, and how you "can be a fan" as one person said, they try to take ownership of it and want to force people to be this or that. While a hobby will just sit there, containing the fans.

If BJDs die out, doll collecting will be there.
If Z scale dies out, model train collecting will be there
If anime dies out, watching animated TV shows will be there. (And if that dies out you can always watch it on the holodeck."

DEZwithaBAT

07-01-2009, 01:24 AM

Here is my take....

A hobby is something you do out of enjoyment, like crafts, drawing, writing, collecting comics and dolls, and model kits.

A 'fandom' is the the idolizing or obsession of something (I don't mean that in a bad way). Fandoms can be for anime, or more focused like a certain character of an anime. I believe it can also be used to describe your love of a team or musician.

I think collecting BJDs falls under the term for hobby. Now, if you make all your dolls look like characters from your fav anime or book (ex. Naruto or Harry Potter) I think then you can associate collecting BJDs as a display of affection torward your fandom. It is still, however, a hobby.

I hope that make sense. :)

verbatim

07-01-2009, 03:04 AM

Fandoms are tiring and easily tend to be annoyingly esoteric, which is why I don't bother with Den of Angels.

Gulwen

09-14-2009, 09:00 AM

It's my hobby :D and i love it :D

dragonlovesdolls

09-15-2009, 07:01 PM

My other half calls it my "dolly hobby" and that seems to justify her involvement by finding things for my dolls for me. LOL Otherwise I get a lot grief for being all most 50 and loving my dolls so much. I think it is more of an addiction. But there are far worse things I could be into so I just keep playing with my gang!

Elendae_Nersil

11-29-2009, 09:04 PM

I call it an "expression". I'm not really sure if I could call it a hobby. A hobby is something you can lose interest in, I'm not sure if I could lose interest in dolls, especially since they're my characters.

I honestly think that it's more of a sub-culture than it is a hobby or a fandom. It's an outlet for creative individuality. So... that's my two cents.

Fireflies

12-01-2009, 12:58 AM

I personally think it's both for me. The fandom comes into play with other people's dolls. For example, I love Iplehouse boys. But I would never buy one. They are too big and heavy for me. And I couldn't pose them with my other dolls. And I would get annoyed with them because I really like Superhero body but I don't sew.

But I still enjoy going online and finding photos of the dolls. Especially, realistic photos. I could spend hours doing this. I think this is fandom.

But actually buying, playing or working on dolls is more of the hobby.

Urethane-side-effect

12-01-2009, 09:22 PM

To some,
it has absolutely became a obsession.
People keep buying more and more,
end up buying 2 outfits for one doll and then moving on to a new one.
I can't imagine anyone actually bonding with a doll in that way.

To me,
it's a working hobby...
ive recently gone back to 2 dolls.
Because i had 5..and was simply not doing anything with most of them.

And i'm making dolls myself.
And love customizing them.
[i don't need a lot of dolls x3... i can just keep re-doing the ones i have]

shikaruchan

01-07-2010, 09:22 AM

to be honest i think of bjd's as an artist hobby just like drawing or painting.

cutup01

02-21-2010, 01:04 AM

Hmm..I've never thought about it b4. I would consider it as hobby but many doll owners are in fandom including me

pbrennan42

02-21-2010, 01:12 AM

I don't care for particular doll creator brands or artist names or stuff like that so it is not a Fandom for me.

I like doing and creating stuff so I guess it is a hobby for me.

Phil.

Kyrenea

02-21-2010, 01:29 AM

Collecting is a hobby - regardless of what you collect. And artwork is a hobby - regardless of the type of artist. To me, all elements of BJDs are a hobby, those two just be the strongest elements.

gelfling21

03-11-2010, 06:17 PM

LOL! My BFF RyuichiSakuma13 and I refer to it as neither fandom nor hobby but as 'lifestyle' as it involves us working long hours to purchase items for our boys ("baby needs new shoes") and also accessories. There are also face ups and wigs, body-blushing, modding, etc.

That all accounts for the hobby and collectible aspect. But there is another aspect that I seriously believe takes it out of th realm of hobby. And that is that I dress my bjd to match the time of day or purpose. My bjd 'goes to bed' when I do. Sometimes before I do. (I suspect at times he gets up and plays cards with the plushies in the middle of the night! LOL) I also find that he has a comforting and quieting effect. He is often in my arms or on my lap or sitting beside me. The kind of joy he brings is not quite the same as the joy of finishing a collection or having a hobby or being a part of a fandom. I have both collections and hobbies. I belong to a couple of fandoms.

The care of a bjd is something a bit different to me. Something very wonderful and nice!