Limited dolls and re-releases

[celestia]

Another thread about limiteds; but specifically on the 're-release' and an analysis of an already-diluted market as a result.

I'm sure we've all seen the great doll influx- the outrage of people in a hobby spending countless amounts of money to get a doll they want VS. people who scalp VS. people who buy/like a doll BECAUSE of what it's worth..
Companies re-releasing limited molds with little or no change- despite having proposed that it would never be released again? Happy faces, sad faces. People missing out because they couldn't keep up?

It is a rather diverse topic with not a lot of direction- so if mods want it reworded- ill do my best.

Do you buy certain dolls because they are limited only?
Maybe you bought it because you really wanted it?
How do/would you feel when/if they get re-released?
Is the word 'limited' becoming less accurate to you as a result?


For a lot of people who weren't in the hobby at that time, it means that they no longer will miss out simply because they were late into the hobby.
At the same time on the other end of the spectrum, a lot of people who had a rare mold will feel somewhat jibbed because there is now more of that supposedly special mold. For one, it means the company does not lose the money to scalpers when the prices inflate because the demand out meets their initial supply.
Will people want to start to buy dolls due to personal aesthetics instead of dolls with a value that inflates due to rarity that they end up "forcing" themselves to like because of it?
And if so- the quality of the hobby was raised as a result of being able to obtain dolls they want without the excess price tag- would they still be able to enjoy a doll the same way or will they feel somewhat rushed to sell a doll they had for the doll they could also now purchase?

And if there are changes being made before being released again; you might want to question- IS it really the same doll?
Would you pay more for the original or an exceptionally well modified sculpt?

For me, The artist of Re-che said the sculpt would never be released again- And now there is a tanned version. I'm personally quite happy they re-released him in a completely different skintone opposed to the same skin, refined features and what not- because it's different.
If however, a NS and WS version of Re-che were to be re-released, as much as i want one, rather than bask in the glory of him finally becoming accessible- i couldn't help but detest the idea.

I would love everyone to have a standard version of this mold because everyone could enjoy him/her the same if he was a standard to begin with- but this mold (and a lot of other molds from other companies) were limited and i have this want for it to STAY that way.

I'd rather spend endless hours and days trying to get the mold at an exaggerated price than knowing it could possibly become standard.

I'm sure there are a lot of countering view points however and i would love to read them all ^ ^

[Moggie]

For me, if a company advertises a limited as "never to be released again" then that is what should happen. It's false advertising to then release it again and leads to the question..... How can you trust that companys limiteds to be limited when they obviously don't keep their word.

It could get a little rediculous, having to say that this doll is the limited from the first release, the second release, the third release, the fourth release....... at some point is it really limited when there are 50, 100, 150, 200 and who knows how many more in future.

[Bel]

I agree - if the mold is advertised as "never to be released again" or "limited to a certain number," they'd damn well better stick with it.

Before getting hooked on dolls, most of my money was divided between action figures and horror books. I just wanted the books to *read* them, but there's a fervent collector's market, and some publishers got caught printing more copies than they'd advertised, and double-numbering the extras. I refuse to buy another book from those publishers.

With dolls? I personally only can justify buying molds that I ADORE. It's my weird luck that those molds tend to be limited - but I'd LOVE it if every single one of them were readily available. Many of the molds that I love are coveted - and as far as I'm concerned, it's for a good reason: because they're fucking beautiful. The more people that have them, the more I get to drool, and the more people (myself included) would be willing to physically modify them. If the original mold is this amazing, how stunning might a mod be? But the thought of messing up a head that's impossible to replace keeps me from experimenting. :( It's not resale value, it's the possibility of replacing the head.

Uh, short version: artists/companies should tell the truth, and I want more of the pretty.

[KeiCai]

I agree with the sentiments of the OP: I believe if a company says it is limited to a certain number, time limit, etc, it should stay that way.

I can't help but question a company and their motives/trustworthyness if they continue to do this: say something is limited to a number/time and then just re-release it over and over.

I also think it's a really bick kick in the arse to those who had to pay a lot of money for a mold they really loved, only to discover no more than a week or month later they could have gotten it for much less.

[Merry]

Definitely, if a company says "never to be released again" that should mean "we've destroyed the original sculpt and broken all existing molds".

I know, as an artist myself, if I went about recreating old works that I sold as one of a kind originals to my clients, I'd shortly find myself hard pressed to sell another piece of 'original, one of a kind' work at the price that sort of thing typically commands.

[miss sha]

I pretty much agree completely with Bunnydots's post over in the DoA version of this thread. Hopefully she won't mind me C&Ping so I don't have to futz up trying to put this into my own words.

I have to respond that I couldn't care less. I buy a doll because I like it and I don't much care whether the company made 1 or 1,000,000 of that doll. I'm probably happier when the doll is standard because that means I won't have to spend two grand to get a doll I like.

Limited items are just to fuel collector fever. Some collectors like that, or like feeling that they have some special or unique thing. I just like the dolls, as in liking their sculpts or what I plan to do with them. I don't care if 52 other people get one just like mine, or get one later. It doesn't diminish how much I like my own doll. Plus, if a person feels that strongly that they HAVE to have something really special that other people don't have, they can do their own mods and customizations to it.

So, yes, I really don't care. My SwD Syo is limited, and if Volks re-released him... so? How does that affect me in any way, unless I wanted another SwD Syo? I didn't buy my Syo because the sculpt was limited - how many other Syos there were in the world didn't even begin to enter into my considerations. So IMHO, companies can re-release all they like. I wish the best of luck to the doll newbie who missed the original SwD Syo to get one of their own in re-release. Like Bel said, it just means more pretties for the rest of us to drool over. X3

[Bel]

Thanks for showing us that, Miss Sha - I agree with Bunnydots wholeheartedly. The "fuel collector fever" part, especially - but the sneak-attack new releases and "will be on pre-sale tomorrow, for 24 hours only" thing is another rant for another day.

The "value" - status, resale, etc - of a doll doesn't matter to an owner if the owner genuinely wanted to OWN the doll themselves.

[Moggie]

So, yes, I really don't care. My SwD Syo is limited, and if Volks re-released him... so? How does that affect me in any way, unless I wanted another SwD Syo? I didn't buy my Syo because the sculpt was limited - how many other Syos there were in the world didn't even begin to enter into my considerations.

I can understand your thinking but there is a financial consideration. Doll companies charge a lot more for limiteds and if the doll really isn't a limited then you are being ripped off. For me, that would be something to consider.

You may say that you would never sell him but others do and perhaps sometime in the future (even if it doesn't seem possible now) you may want to sell him. At that point, if the doll has become just another sculpt then you wouldn't get what you paid at the time and that would affect you. The company has effectively devalued the doll after telling people it is limited, never to be released again and charging big money for the original release.

[celestia]

Rather than the simple notion of making it accessible to everyone; which is a great feat no doubt- The quality of the word "limited" gets mangled- discussed in other threads, one could ask whether or not they really ARE limiteds.
I know i would prefer the sellers to just sell them as "standard/fullset" rather than to announce them 'limited' and follow it by butchering the accuracy of the word.

Oh, and for those wanting to read the DoA thread on the same general topic: here (http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168763).

Then again, some people do purchase limiteds for the sake of them being limited. I'm hoping that it'll change so the sculpts belong to more "deserving" owners- but at the same time, it'd be nice for them to keep to their words.

edit: Also, well said, Moggie.

[Shizen]

I'll just use my case and make it simple:

Jun Tachibana was one of my first doll crushes. I didn't like her because it was stated that she was limited. I just really liked her aesthetic. I wish she'd get re-released so I could have a chance to purchase her at her base price. She's just too expensive for me right now, in the aftermarket.

If I was in the shoes of a current Jun owner, I would honestly say I'd be a little disappointed, but at the same time, I'd thwap myself for being selfish. She is a beautiful doll, and more people would be made happier if they had a chance to bring her home. I don't mind the value of my own Jun going down because of the re-release, mainly because I would have NO intention of selling her, unless absolute necessity demands it.

I do wish they'd be more clear as to their concept of a Limited. I am not fully aware of what Limited means, and I think different doll companies have different concepts of it. If a company states that they will never re-release a particular doll, then they should stick to their word.

[Kim]

Then again, some people do purchase limiteds for the sake of them being limited. I'm hoping that it'll change so the sculpts belong to more "deserving" owners- but at the same time, it'd be nice for them to keep to their words.

What exactly qualifies someone as being more deserving than another person for owning a doll? That opens a whole other can of worms, and people who collect these dolls for collection sake are doll owners with just as much right to own their dolls as someone who thinks of them as their "resin children."

I would love a rerelease of Michele from Volks, but at the same time, when absolutes like "never to be released again" or a number edition are given to a doll run, if I purchased one of those dolls and then the doll is released again after that, I'd be pissed. The company just lied to me as a consumer.

[miss sha]

Well, the problem with saying limiteds that are re-released again and again aren't really limited is that... that's not actually true. Even if there are two, three, four re-releases of a doll, that's still a very particularly amount of dolls circulating around in the world, unlike standards that are constantly being made. The doll may not be AS limited as you originally thought, but it still is limited.

As for devaluing the doll if I ever chose to sell it, well, that's a risk you take when you buy secondhand. It's not a company's fault that I paid $400 for a head, or someone else paid $2000 for a doll on YJ. Oh, and it's a bit weird to bring up companies charging more money for limited dolls. For, say, Volks, those limited sculpts never become standard, so there's not really a comparison to make for a "non-limited" price, I guess? Volks limiteds are all priced pretty consistently. I'm having a hard time trying to describe what I mean, I hope that makes sense.

Bel - I can kind of see what you mean here. Something almost similar happened to me with the Autumn Bahas. I snatched one up quickly using money I didn't really have, thinking they would sell out quickly. As far as I know, they're still in stock on the site right now. It's nothing like a company re-releasing a mold, but, say, if the Autumn Bahas HAD sold out but Pipos re-released this particularly version, I can see being annoyed, knowing I could have waited for a release when I actually had money. But certainly not being upset that now more people can get them, or that they're less limited than I believed. That just doesn't really phase me at all.

Oh, and I think we all ought to know better about companies like Volks saying 'never to be released again.' Volks is quite well-known for re-releasing new versions of their limited dolls. I think if anyone buys a Volks, you ought to be aware of the likely possibility that that doll could be eventually re-released. ^^;

[celestia]

What exactly qualifies someone as being more deserving than another person for owning a doll?
The quotation marks was to hopefully differentiate between deserving and "deserving" and make it somewhat more obvious. So apologies for not stating so earlier.
In my opinion, i don't find a person who scalps that sculpt for what it is to be deserving of that corresponding doll since they would plan to resell it rather than permanently make an effort to own it.

Well, the problem with saying limiteds that are re-released again and again aren't really limited is that... that's not actually true. Even if there are two, three, four re-releases of a doll, that's still a very particularly amount of dolls circulating around in the world, unlike standards that are constantly being made. The doll may not be AS limited as you originally thought, but it still is limited.And i'd be tempted to say they are now not limited because they are still obviously being produced. A sculpt produced in constant, but limited runs is no longer 'limited and not available for sale again' in my eyes. It's just like having an item be sold out and then having to wait for it to be restocked.

[Moggie]

Well, the problem with saying limiteds that are re-released again and again aren't really limited is that... that's not actually true. Even if there are two, three, four re-releases of a doll, that's still a very particularly amount of dolls circulating around in the world, unlike standards that are constantly being made. The doll may not be AS limited as you originally thought, but it still is limited.


In a strange sort of way, using your reasoning and taking it to the extreme ;) , you could say that all dolls are limited. Companies could or do stop making a particular sculpt at some point and the doll is therefore limited. There are only 50,000 of these dolls in existance for example. Numbers become meaningless for limiteds, if the companys word on how many form the limited number available becomes questionable when they say X number and then make it Y number later.

Saying that the doll may not "as limited" as you originally thought doesn't excuse the company from falsely stating that the doll would be limited to X number worldwide forever and then changing the rules later.

[miss sha]

That is very true! XD Thankfully, though, we're not at that point just yet, and companies are still pumping out those standards.

Using Volks as an example again, though, they usually don't say exactly how many of a doll that they are making at any particular release. Is it any different when they just say "limited" and not "limited to X"? Maybe that's exactly why Volks DOESN'T say specific numbers, so they can produce re-releases. XD

[Bel]

Any product is limited. Companies planning limited releases *should* set numbers first, and companies that limit castings to pre-orders or whatever should, I don't know, date or number their heads. (Either of which can be forged by the company.)

(I really don't mean to sound terse. If I don't boil this down to bones, this post would have meandered on about Twinkies, bananas, Mustangs, and whomping dead horses.)

[celestia]

I've always thought that myself with Volks; but then again I've always considered volks to use 'limited' when referring to an outfit and a particular face up in addition to the doll they're selling as limited. Still, it's never been advertised like- limited sculpt to a certain number and- will not be re-released ever! Volks have numbers on the headplates (i think) to signify these.. so a lot of pedantic people determined to get one particular mold from one particular limited- would be able to have it identified.

Then again, with a lot of companies following this; variations end up meaning- limiteds will have fullsets and particular face up.. and following that they'll surprise everyone with a standard version when everyone believed a particular doll's SCULPT would be limited. I'm wondering how much of a factor Engrish accounts for this as well.
Anyway, that aside. It's nice to hear everyone's views and where they draw the line.

[KeiCai]

Using Volks as an example again, though, they usually don't say exactly how many of a doll that they are making at any particular release. Is it any different when they just say "limited" and not "limited to X"? Maybe that's exactly why Volks DOESN'T say specific numbers, so they can produce re-releases. XD

I think this is why I have a very different view of Volks re-releases than, say, Luts. Volks never puts a number on their limiteds, nor do they ever say 'this mold will stop being produced after this release' like other companies. I don't mind that Volks re-releases certain molds because they are not going back on their word. It's also come to be expected that Volks may re-release some molds.

In contrast, I have a great issue with other companies and their re-releasing of sculpts, such as Luts' Elf El and Elf Lishe. They originally stated a number they would be limited to, but did not stick to that. That has me wondering about what other limited sculpts they will re-release, despite the fact they put numbers to their limiteds. This also goes for the recent re-release of Migidoll Ryu. A few months ago Migidoll stated that the Ryu mold would no longer be in production once the cast broke, and she ceased production of him only days after a friend of mine bought her's due to the fear she wouldn't be able to get one after that. I don't even mind that there will be more Ryu's (I love the mold), but I think it's more on principle that I feel lied to more than anything else.

[Moggie]

Using Volks as an example again, though, they usually don't say exactly how many of a doll that they are making at any particular release. Is it any different when they just say "limited" and not "limited to X"? Maybe that's exactly why Volks DOESN'T say specific numbers, so they can produce re-releases. XD

It's one way to get around the "limited to X number" but the number is sort of implied by the little box that says 100 available at the start of the release and "sold out" when the shopping carts fill up. :)

How many releases can they do before people start to question whether the doll is actually "limited".

I guess it comes down to how consumers view the word limited versus the company view. I don't think some companies really understand what the word limited really means.

In most hobbies, when something is limited it means X number period, not X number this time, then Y number next time and Z number the time after that.

[Bel]

Come to think of it, I haven't seen any mold presented as limited for all time, never ever to happen ever again, ever ever ever. There are always loopholes - like w/Bermann, maybe once Anu's exclusive contract runs out, Mr. Sexy Dollshe will unleash Bermanns for all.

[Kim]

Come to think of it, I haven't seen any mold presented as limited for all time, never ever to happen ever again, ever ever ever. There are always loopholes - like w/Bermann, maybe once Anu's exclusive contract runs out, Mr. Sexy Dollshe will unleash Bermanns for all.

And then the Wankocalypse shall descend upon us all. I actually kinda wanna see that happen just to sit on the sidelines and watch the carnage ensue.

(and then totally buy one to turn into Queen Elizabeth I)

Wasn't there a Dollmore one off sold on ebay that was a OOAK casting from a mold they had since destroyed in the development of another doll head?

[Moggie]

Come to think of it, I haven't seen any mold presented as limited for all time, never ever to happen ever again, ever ever ever. There are always loopholes - like w/Bermann, maybe once Anu's exclusive contract runs out, Mr. Sexy Dollshe will unleash Bermanns for all.

The Dollzone Elves have been presented as that, never to be released again. I'd be very peeved if they do release them again as being one of their agents I categorically stated that they would never be released again based on the word of the company. I really hate to be made a fool of. ;)

[miss sha]

And then the Wankocalypse shall descend upon us all. I actually kinda wanna see that happen just to sit on the sidelines and watch the carnage ensue.

(and then totally buy one to turn into Queen Elizabeth I)

Here here. XD :drunk

But yeah, I agree that there probably is disconnect between what companies think of as limited and what the consumers think of as limited. I can certainly see where people would get off being upset about, say, Luts Woosoo, that DID have a specific number attached to it, being re-released than any particularly Volks sculpt.

I can understand why people get upset about it, but it's just something that doesn't personally upset ME at all. I hear about any re-release and all I can think is 'hurrah for whoever wanted that doll but couldn't get it before, today is your lucky day!' Anything else just isn't a viewpoint I personally sympathize with.

I do agree that companies ought to be more upfront about how they will produce their limiteds. If they're considering to re-releasing them, mention the possibility in some way, if only for the sake of semantics.

[whitebread]

Being completely hypocritical, I'd hate it if a company re-released a LE doll I had. I ended up buying my Migidoll Ryu a few days before it was widely known that the artist would be releasing more, but I didn't mind since I paid less than retail for him. DoD re-releasing the tan DoTs? There would be a lot of angry keyboard pounding over that.

On the other hand, when Luts did the second release of Elf El, I gladly snapped one up. And if there ever were unlimited Bermanns, I would be sending Mr. Dollshe candies and love notes. But I'd still think that it was unfair to the people who did buy the dolls thinking that they were getting number x of xx amount, only to find out that they paid six times the original cost for nothing. Companies should be upfront about the posibility of re-releasing a limited, and not just do edition after edition because there is a huge market for it. Yes, companies are out to make money, but I still expect at least some honesty. Sometimes it's not worthy alienating their consumer base just to make that much more of a profit.

[KeiCai]

And then the Wankocalypse shall descend upon us all. I actually kinda wanna see that happen just to sit on the sidelines and watch the carnage ensue.


I must say I would be sitting there with you; the thought of that is both frightening and hilarious, and I can only imagine the impending doom it would cause.

[Lizzard]

In contrast, I have a great issue with other companies and their re-releasing of sculpts, such as Luts' Elf El and Elf Lishe. They originally stated a number they would be limited to, but did not stick to that.

The second elves were completely new sculpts. Yes, they are elves based on El and Lishe, but they are not the same, and the molds were not reused. That's why most owners differentiate between the first release elves and the second release, as you can see in my signature.

[NightWatch]

See, I would like the companies to learn what limited really means. It has nothing to do with me owning limited dolls and more to do with me being unhappy about false advertising. In the case of Luts, they attach a number to their limiteds so I would expect their limiteds to remain that number of limiteds. In the case of Elf Els and Lishe, they were new sculpts (with Lishe being rather different looking) so I felt that they were sticking to their word, somewhat.

In the case of Latidoll...well, I was surprised. They very clearly stated there will only be this number of dolls released and they won't make them ever again. A year later, they released the same dolls again. As I said, false advertising. For the second round, they say they will never make them again, but hey, maybe they'll change their minds next year? If they're going to do this, why not just make them Standards?

In a way, I think it's a promotional technique gone bad. By making it a Limited, they know people are more likely to swoop in and buy the dolls because they won't be produced again. Except they might be produced again after all. It's false advertising. I don't like it.

(For clarification, I don't own any limiteds that have been rereleased.)

[lin]

I have mixed feelings about re-releasing "limited" dolls. It would probably lower the current market value of my particular LE and I wouldn't be "special" anymore (LOL), but on the other hand I wouldn't be so paranoid about him being stolen if I take him anywhere. I only bought him as a LE because there was no other way to get one at a reasonable price. If he were re-released as a standard, I would probably enjoy him more, because I could buy a replacement if something happened to him and I would definitely buy him a brother. If I were the kind of collector who keeps their dolls mint-in-the-box with the intent to sell when the market peaks I would probably be upset at re-releases.

[harlowe]

I'd like to see more re-releasing of the molds themself. They could do some minor modification to differenciate. Really, if they do not state the mold itself is limited for all eternity, then they are perfectly within their rights as a business to re-release the molds.

I like seeing more people get their dream dolls for a reasonable price, but I am sure collectors that buy them as a mini-investment don't like that at all, which is understandable. I care more about people having fun with the dolls than those that do it for a collectable investment, so that's just me.

I would love Dollshe to come out with something that is similiar to Bermann, because that doll causes more angst and heartache than any other.

Hmm, Bermann MSD ohhhh yeah!

[NightWatch]

Hmm, Bermann MSD ohhhh yeah!

I'm trying to imagine it but it looks really weird in my head! How about Bermann 60cm sized? I think that would be interesting... >_>

What I would like is for companies to release more standards. They should stop with all the Limited nonsense if they want to release it more often. What's wrong with standards? *grumbles*

[celestia]

oh i don't know X3 not as much profit in first 1 minute of having them being released?

[miss sha]

Hmm, Bermann MSD ohhhh yeah!

I laughed so hard at this! XD

I also agree with you Harlowe. I can't see anything wrong with re-releasing limiteds if it means more people get the dolls that they want without having to succumb to scalped prices. I'm in a position now where I pretty much have all the dolls I want, and the one I'm working towards now isn't limited, but I do remember being in that spot and it's definitely not a fun place to be. I do believe that most of the time, in this hobby, the prices are the prices. If you're not going to pay $600 for that standard doll, you're not going to own it, just like if you're not going to pay $2000 for that YJ limited that hasn't been re-released in years, you're not going to own that either. Pay it, or don't. But coughing up $2000 is never easy. I was at a point where I was saving up for one of those $2000 Anaises on YJ... I had no choice, I wanted an Anais, and there were no others available. But then Volks re-released Anais for their LA Dolpa opening. Can we say ecstatic? XD

Of course, if I had bought that YJ doll before the re-release, I would be upset that I paid so much. But you take that risk when you buy scalped dolls - the risk that you're overpaying, and that that doll may be re-released someday.

[Brightfires]

I must say I would be sitting there with you; the thought of that is both frightening and hilarious, and I can only imagine the impending doom it would cause.

Funny... I feel exactly the same way about Woosoo. :XD

Personally, even though I traded quite a bit of that filthy lucre for some of my CP Limited guys, I wouldn't mind a bit if all the Elves, the Breakaways and the rest were turned into Standard releases. But then, I didn't pick them because I was interested in having status symbols. I bought them because I liked them.

Like I said when we got into this discussion last Christmas, it doesn't matter to me if Teacup and Crow are two of 68 or two of 12,000. I don't see them as "investment property" and the state of their resale value doesn't affect my affection for them. Nor do they have to be Special Snowflakes to the rest of the doll world to be valuable to me.

I know other people see things a bit differently... but that's a mind-set that's likely to lead to a lot of grumbling. If we've all learned one thing about doll companies and the doll business, it should be to take just about everything they say with a big grain of salt, and that includes release times and numbers. What's Truth today may not be Truth tomorrow. 'Just ask those people who were promised that the Elf Lishe would be released as a Standard... Or any of us who were told there would never be a Tanned Shiwoo. Less than a week before he showed up on eLuts' site. ([laughs] I'm still waiting on that LE30 Tanned Harang they promised us too... 'Wonder what my odds are of ever seeing him? 'Probably about the same as thinking there will never be a Type 2 Elf Shiwoo.)

[miss sha]

Good point, Brightfires! Luts has always been iffy about what they say about releasing STANDARDS - why in the world would you trust 100% what they say about limiteds? XD

[Brightfires]

Good point, Brightfires! Luts has always been iffy about what they say about releasing STANDARDS - why in the world would you trust 100% what they say about limiteds? XD

Exactly... and they're far from the only ones, it sounds like. o_O

[NightWatch]

Good point, Brightfires! Luts has always been iffy about what they say about releasing STANDARDS - why in the world would you trust 100% what they say about limiteds? XD

*snickers* Unfortunately, this is very true. Good to be reminded of it, actually. What happened to CP 1/6 dolls? I was so, so waiting for that to appear.

[harlowe]

Okay just picture a Limho MSD with more of a heroin junkie body and a Bermann face on it (or Hound, Saint etc). I think even a 60cm or an off size like 58-55cm would be cool as well.

I just really want to see some mature MSD boys. I'm going back and forth between getting another Limho or try the heartbreak narindolls face and either way, have Lilykoi with Dollfair give it a mature, brooding face-up.

[KeiCai]

Funny... I feel exactly the same way about Woosoo. :XD


Oh, you can bet now I would be sitting there for Woosoo too. xD


You make a good point about trusting the companies; I think most people forget that, including myself. It's sad that we can't trust the companies we give large chunks of our money to.

[Brightfires]

Oh, you can bet now I would be sitting there for Woosoo too. xD

You make a good point about trusting the companies; I think most people forget that, including myself. It's sad that we can't trust the companies we give large chunks of our money to.

True that...
It's just another one of those fiddly little details that we have to keep in mind when we're shopping around, I guess. "That which is Limited today may not be so Limited tomorrow".

[sgtgeorgecarter]

Funny... I feel exactly the same way about Woosoo. :XD

WooSoo and Berman carnage... I'd enjoy that. Especially as I don't want either for myself. ;)


Personally, even though I traded quite a bit of that filthy lucre for some of my CP Limited guys, I wouldn't mind a bit if all the Elves, the Breakaways and the rest were turned into Standard releases. But then, I didn't pick them because I was interested in having status symbols. I bought them because I liked them.

Like I said when we got into this discussion last Christmas, it doesn't matter to me if Teacup and Crow are two of 68 or two of 12,000. I don't see them as "investment property" and the state of their resale value doesn't affect my affection for them. Nor do they have to be Special Snowflakes to the rest of the doll world to be valuable to me.

That's my view as well. I don't care who has how many. I want the dolls I love. I'm not here for the status, I'm here for the fun.

The companies will do as they do. I know that it's highly unlikely that any of my dolls will leave my house so their resale value isn't an issue for me. I've sold only one, and that was by sheer luck and to someone who he was perfect for. I don't look at them as investments and I pity the fools who do, because they aren't.

My only issue with limited items is if I like it, I almost never have the dosh to buy it within the time frame. :angry Still, I figure that's the universe's way of not having me hip deep in dolls.

[Bel]

I haven't seen the Dollzone elves advertised as never to be released again - at least, that's not how I interpreted the sales info on various sites. I assumed the fullset was limited to 30, and they'd be releasing the molds as standards (or other fullsets, who knows) eventually.

[bunnydots]

Limiteds, bah. I couldn't care less. I buy what I like, I pay what I want, and I'm just as happy when it's not limited and everybody can get some. I wouldn't care if floods of Berms were loosed upon the world. I think that would be nice actually. We'd see how many people really liked and wanted it and how many just liked and wanted it because it was hard to get. I'd like it just as much either way.

I never believe anybody including a company when they say "limited" or "one-off" or "OOAK" etc. because it's easy enough to make another that looks almost like the firt one and maybe has a couple small details changed. Besides I think it's silly to like something more because it is limited to X number. If anything, that makes me like it less because I'm always afraid if I break it or something there won't be another and I'd just as soon be spared that worry.

[Malice Librarian]

I couldn't care less about limiteds and their re-releases - I'm only going to buy dolls that appeal to me personally, not basing my decisions on popularity, rarity, etc. It's just like with the Yu-Gi-Oh cards - the ultra rares that people were scrambling to get (and paying through the nose for) were just re-released in a more plentiful edition a few years down the line. Who cares about what edition it is as long as you're getting what you want?

[Uneide]

Um.. to me just buying a doll because "OMG limited" is rather pointless. I HAVE bought a LE in the past - and we didn't bond. He was my first doll, sold to a good home after -- but it always left that weird taste in my mouth. He wasn't right for me -- and I felt horrible that he was in a home where he wasn't that wanted.

I buy dolls because I fall in love with them. There's something about them that I feel connects with me - but they are always WIP, as invariably I choose a doll to turn into one of my beloved characters, not just to have it as is. I think that was the problem I had with that first LE doll - and why I don't really get them now ( well, other than no money.. ^_^;;) -I tried getting another, a girl because I thought I -could- turn her into the character --- but when you get a fullset ... well, they ARE that character already, aren't they? I find it very hard to see past that and turn them into anything else.

For me, the non limiteds ( talking about the non fullsets, specifically) are more of the blank canvas that I look for - a starting point for making a doll that is truly -mine- and unique.

I haven't seen the Dollzone elves advertised as never to be released again - at least, that's not how I interpreted the sales info on various sites. I assumed the fullset was limited to 30, and they'd be releasing the molds as standards (or other fullsets, who knows) eventually.


Bel, and to reply to this *(since I'm the DZ agent in Canada) - we -asked- DZ this point blank, whether they would be releasing more later, or whether they would be releasing just the molds --- aaaand got the same stock answer. As far as we know - -no, that's it. But I wouldnt' put it past them, personally, since I really don't think they anticipated the hit these boys were going to be.

[ravendolls]

I myself like owning obscure things, I'm not sure why... maybe my asocial tendencies speaking... but I don't think I have anything obscure and terribly valuable. In fact I get nervous having uber-limited dollies because I'm terrified they'll break or get re-released or something, ha...!

I can't say I like the idea of owning something and having its value suddenly diminish. But then I've only sold dolls on that I probably shouldn't have owned to begin with. Like Unoas. I thought "Oh I should sell this girl before her value decreases". That was how many pre-orders ago? They're still expensive!

But then again I could have sold my Elf Soph for big bucks when it was unknown if Dollstown would ever be making anything ever again. I can't part with her (bangs head on desk)!

I guess the point of this rambling is to say I'm all for the "just buy what you like and hope for the best". Sometimes you'll sell and profit, other times you really won't. It's a hobby, not the stock market. ^_~ People spending 8K on a bjd (Bermann?) are asking for trouble or have enough money so that it doesn't matter.

Raven

[JennyNemesis]

If a doll company say something is "limited", and they do a second limited release: the item IS still limited. There's more of them around than before, but they are still limited. (i.e. not regular stock.) Semantics, I know, but there you are.

More semantics: If they have a limited release of one item, and then release another limited run that's the same, EXCEPT has vamp ears, teeth, different skintone, special hands, etc... it is also still limited. It's a different doll from the one you bought before.

Of course, if they tell you that it "will never be released again" or "limited to [specific number] forever and ever".... and then they release the same doll later? I would grumble at them, sure. But I wouldn't freak myself into a K-Hole over it.

I love owning obscure things too! I gravitate towards Limited Edition Anythings. Happens with comics, records/CDs, movies, signed books, action figures, snowglobes, oh man, my house is so stuffed with arcane crap. There is that wonderful little frisson you get... when the most jaded geek in the world comes to your house, expecting to have seen it all already.... and his/her eyes pop halfway out of their sockets when they see your first-edition plastic-sealed copy of [whatever].

I like it because I'm not into other conventional Western status symbols: I don't have a house, or a Porsche, or a diamond, or a pair of Jimmy Choos, or alla that. When I have a special something that only some other geeks have, or even KNOW about, it's just cooler. And I will never need to own diamonds, as long as people come into my house & coo, "Oooh, you have a Satoko Ohno?" in the same tone you hear "Oooh, how many carats is it?" ^^


But no, I don't buy anyone with an eye for acquiring a status symbol-- and I don't buy anyone JUST because he is limited. It's just my kinky luck that almost every face I have fallen in love with.... has been an LE. When I see a doll that comes in both regular & LE versions, I first decide whether the faceup/outfit/bells-and-whistles of the fullset is worth my extra $$ over the regular version. Thing is, I almost always wind up with the fullset because I'm a sucker for fullsets. ^^ When I bought my regular-stock Namu, I was so excited to be paying less than a thousand bucks for a whole set, and to feel no rush to order him, because he would always be there. (Well, at least, stay in regular stock in the immediate future.) I don't find Limitedness to be a draw in itself, but I do find it to be a nice cherry on the cupcake.

[celestia]

But i guess what others have been discussing in the past few posts is that the issue is with a company's ignorance of the word 'limited'. And that it's not as simple as wanting a mold that is limited that turns standard so that everyone can get their hands on it.

The question at the moment is; why not release them as standards in the first place?
With such a huge base of hobbyists in BJD- releasing them all as a standard would earn them more money over time *unless* they re-released said limited sculpt.

Or does it come down to trying to compete against each other for having that extra appeal for customers to buy their dolls in an allotted timeframe?

Maybe companies decide to use "discontinued" instead of "limited". If anything.. at least the discontinue supply was limited. To reissue releases of "limiteds" if they were done in limited runs, constantly over say, 10 years with no change; would the consistency of production make you rethink the value of the word "limited"?

[harlowe]

Limiteds are part of the whole "collectible" business whether it's dolls or Star Trek figurines.

Besides the fact that it's expected by your hobbyists/buyers and a very good return on investment for a company - if I were in their position, I would think releasing limiteds is a good way to put out a "teaser" and test the waters and to pique interest in a new concept or mold. It gives them a feel for how the doll will be received and if they should bother making it a standard. There will always be people willing to buy up a limiteds - it's how fast they sell would indicate the interest.

If it's crazy popular as a limited, it would be a good candidate to put in your standard line-up (with a few minor changes to make it different from the limited).

[hobbywhelmed]

Limiteds are part of the whole "collectible" business whether it's dolls or Star Trek figurines.

This reminds me of collectible plates, where they say "limited to a 30-day firing period". They don't tell you, though, that for those 30 days, there's the equivalent of a small country pumping out thousands and thousands of plates!

Maybe the unspoken caveat with some of these companies is "THIS RUN is limited to ______ pieces." Doesn't mean there couldn't be another run!

I personally would love to be able to acquire the Woosoo sculpt. Just because I love the snarky look of it. Alas, at this point, with a head going for over $900 on ebay, and another just taken down from sale where the owner had paid almost 2-grand for the head previously, it just isn't going to happen!

And I'm ambivalent about the attitude of some secondary market sellers. I can see trying to make back the original official value of the doll. But is it right to insist on making back exactly the exorbitant amount you overpaid on the secondary market (or bid) because you were hot in reckless lust at the time? Especially when parts of the original limited as issued are now missing, including, but not limited to outfit, wig, and body!

[Moggie]

The companies will do as they do. I know that it's highly unlikely that any of my dolls will leave my house so their resale value isn't an issue for me. I've sold only one, and that was by sheer luck and to someone who he was perfect for. I don't look at them as investments and I pity the fools who do, because they aren't.

I don't look at them as investments either but I think everyone expects them to at least hold their value. Otherwise you would be able to get every doll cheaper on the secondhand market instead of having to pay as much or more for the same doll later on.

Their value as a limited is at issue because the companies charge a lot more for a limited. If they are not going to keep their word and keep releasing the same doll then they shouldn't charge more for it.

[harlowe]

Frankly, I would really love, love, love to see them release Woosoo's again, not because I want one - but I just cringe to see how much people have to pay for just a head. Actually I feel the same way about Bermann's and that's another doll I don't really want either (too big, I'm an MSD gal).

If they are not going to keep their word and keep releasing the same doll then they shouldn't charge more for it.

I don't think it's a matter of them not keeping their word, I think it's probably a difference in what they feel "limited" is and what a collector wants it to mean.

[NightWatch]

To the others who are talking about liking dolls because it's limited...that's not really the issue for me. I like standards just as well. I just wonder why a company needs to advertise something as Limited and then release it again when they can just make it Standards or make it Special Editions released once in awhile. I would be happier with more standards around. Less pressure to buy it quick for everyone and less scalping.

I agree that a lot of companies don't seem to get what limited means. It could very well be a language barrier problem. In the case of Latidoll though, I think they do know what Limited is. If I recall right, their advertisement did actually consist of 'This will never be released again!'. Except, they did release it again. And that surprised me because Latidoll has previously been very good with keeping with their word.

[Bel]

But is it right to insist on making back exactly the exorbitant amount you overpaid on the secondary market (or bid) because you were hot in reckless lust at the time?

Absolutely not, in my opinion. You shouldn't expect someone else to literally pay for your decision. If you put it on auction and you get bid up that high? Happy times. But value is based on what someone is willing and able to pay for an item. The doll's value may have been $2000 to you, but to everyone else, its value is no more than $800, let's say. And if that's the case, you can insist all day long that you won't take less than $2k for it, but you'll be keeping that doll yourself until the one random person to whom it's also worth $2k shows up.

And by "you" I don't mean you, Hobbywhelmed, just to be super-clear. :)

Why not release them as standards in the first place? My guess is that it's because, if all companies but one released limiteds and the last company always had standards available, that last company just won't sell as many, because maybe many of us would be saving for one of their molds, but BAM, here's a limited that we just can't pass up because omg if we do we'll never be able to afford it on the secondhand market... so we throw our money to the limited, because, no worries, that standard will be there next time. How many of us have put off standards that we love and are on our wish lists because an amazing limited turned up?

[Karhys]

For me personally, I've never really cared that much whether a doll is limited or not, because I buy based on my personal love for the sculpt. Yeah, sometimes I might enjoy that my doll is a bit rarer than some others, but usually I'm too busy loving them. ;)

That said, I don't like it when companies advertise a doll as "limited" and then change their minds and do "standard" releases because it does cheat the buyers.

I bought one of the "limited to 12 in the whole world!" misty blue Pepes from BambiCrony because the way they worded the release of them, it was my only chance EVER to get that doll. I was in love with the doll, so I plonked down money I didn't really have to get him. Just a few days after that, they suddenly announced that they would be releasing them as standards for the next month and everyone who wanted one could get them.

This didn't bother me because of the limited vs non-limited status, but rather because I'd put down money that I didn't have to buy a doll with a wig, eyes, outfit and boots I wasn't remotely interested in just so I could get what I thought was my only chance at him. If I'd known they were going to release standards without the items I didn't want, I'd have waited and saved myself $200+. I was able to sell off the outfit and extra items fairly easily, but I had to wait till I had them in hand to get that money, so I was out of pocket for over a month and I don't think I made back the extra difference in the end.

In that sense, limiteds that aren't limiteds bother me - when they're tricking buyers into rush buying and paying more than they want for things they don't need. That's the only rush buy I've ever done in my long and varied dolly career, and it's the only one I'll ever do - I've learnt my lesson.

I own one of the original Volks Shirous (I got him when he was first released) and while I admit it used to be fun when people would go "wow, you have a Shirou! amazing!" because of his limited status, I wasn't upset when Volks rereleased him. Rather I thought "yay, all those people who've craved him all those years can now get him!" But I'm not a collector who ever resells (I've never resold a doll) so I guess it's different for me. I never have to worry about resale value. XD

P.S. I do admit I would also be there to watch the Bermann Wankocalypse if it happened... possibly eating popcorn on the sidelines. :shifty

[cloverfirefly]

I used to be really paranoid that someday Bluefairy or Minoru World would release more misty rose skin Mays and thus make my own girl less special. However, I realized that no matter how many misty rose skin Mays were released upon the world, I would still be the only one to have my May. The fact that she is mine makes her more special to me than her limitedness.

More Hewitts? More Mamus? Bring it on. I'd love to see people who wanted them being able to get them at a good price.

Also, regarding why companies don't just release more standards, I thought that, at least in part, companies would release limiteds in order to be able to produce dolls with more complicated face ups and outfits. It may very well be impossible to create an unlimited supply of certain dolls. (I think I'd read somewhere that Volks wasn't going to release Yos as standards since they were so complicated to make.)

[AreeElf]

I tend to buy dolls because something about them appeals to me not so much whether they are limited or not so for me resale value isn't an issue.

I don't like it though when a company says something is limited then turns around and finds ways to sell the same product as not limited. It is false advertising.

Cassiel mentioned one of the particular events that I found distasteful. Bambicrony didn't let on that they would be selling nonlimited versions of the same doll within days. It was a form of deceptive false advertising that causes a buying frenzy.

[april]

Do you buy certain dolls because they are limited only?
Silly reason to buy a doll--unless you're planning on scalping it later! I buy because I want that doll/sculpt, of course. Being limited may be an added incentive to some people... to me, it's only important because I know I have to get the doll when it is originally offered, because I don't want to risk the after-market prices and hassle.

Having the dolls be unlimited would be SO much nicer... less stress about having to buy immediately and all that. But if the doll I want happens to be limited, I just have to deal. I'd rather there were NO limited dolls--that everyone had some time to save up for and buy the doll they want!!! *_*

Maybe you bought it because you really wanted it?
I'd hope so. As I said, it would be silly if you didn't want it!!!

How do/would you feel when/if they get re-released?
First, since I wish all dolls were unlimited, I'm happy for those who couldn't get the dolls originally. Now they have another chance (although--because they are still limited, it'll just cause others to go through pain of trying to buy and maybe missing out!).

Second, I dislike doll companies for saying they will only make X amount and then they release more later. That's just wrong. I'm not sorry they release more, I just wish they wouldn't say what they do originally! It's misleading their customers. It's being dishonest, really. Some people will rush to buy because they worry they may regret not doing it later and perhaps they rush to a wrong decision. Or they rush to buy when they really can't afford it and maybe go into debt. It's better if all dolls were just produced until sales slump and then the company can announce they will retire them for a while... and maybe bring back later if there's a lot of requests, etc. That would be most fair.

Is the word 'limited' becoming less accurate to you as a result?
In the BJD world, limited doesn't mean what most people think it means. It just means that "maybe" these dolls will not be produced again!!! Maybe they should use a different term? I don't know. Or maybe they should say in the description that maybe the sculpt may be re-released in the future.

I'm sure we've all seen the great doll influx- the outrage of people in a hobby spending countless amounts of money to get a doll they want VS. people who scalp VS. people who buy/like a doll BECAUSE of what it's worth..
I don't care if there are lots more people buying BJDs. It's their business.
I don't care if other people spend a lot or spend a little on dolls. It's their business.
I don't care WHY other people buy dolls. It's their business.
I wish people wouldn't bother about stuff that's NOT THEIR BUSINESS!!!

At the same time on the other end of the spectrum, a lot of people who had a rare mold will feel somewhat jibbed because there is now more of that supposedly special mold. For one, it means the company does not lose the money to scalpers when the prices inflate because the demand out meets their initial supply.
All my dolls are limited. I bought them because I wanted them, not because they are rare. I'd rather they were not limited as I said.
If companies don't want scalpers, then they would not make their dolls limited in the first place. I think that's the answer. If we all know dolls will be unlimited up-front it would make life easier for buyers and wouldn't make those who buy a limited upset later if there are re-releases and would cut down on scalping. Re-releasing doesn't cut down on all the major scalping that happens right after a limited sells out. And companies don't really care that much or they'd just make the dolls more available to people in the first place.

Will people want to start to buy dolls due to personal aesthetics instead of dolls with a value that inflates due to rarity that they end up "forcing" themselves to like because of it?
It shouldn't matter to ANYONE why a person buys a doll!!! Thought-police=bad idea!!! We shouldn't care about what's in another persons mind when they buy a doll. It's not anyone else's business.

And if so- the quality of the hobby was raised as a result of being able to obtain dolls they want without the excess price tag- would they still be able to enjoy a doll the same way or will they feel somewhat rushed to sell a doll they had for the doll they could also now purchase?
I agree it would be nicer if people didn't have to pay huge amounts in the after-market and didn't have to rush to purchase a limited, as I said above. I don't think this had anything at all do do with the "quality of the hobby," however.

And if there are changes being made before being released again; you might want to question- IS it really the same doll?
Would you pay more for the original or an exceptionally well modified sculpt?
This whole question of prices is weird. It's all up to the market and if you actually want a certain doll or not. You either want a certain doll or not. Small differences--who cares? Unless you're buying for odd reasons???

For me, The artist of Re-che said the sculpt would never be released again- And now there is a tanned version. I'm personally quite happy they re-released him in a completely different skintone opposed to the same skin, refined features and what not- because it's different.
If however, a NS and WS version of Re-che were to be re-released, as much as i want one, rather than bask in the glory of him finally becoming accessible- i couldn't help but detest the idea.
So, for you, the rarity is important.

I've got an El Elf (original set). He was worth quite a lot before they released more. But that doesn't matter to me because I'm not selling him!

Whether the 2006 version is exactly the same or not doesn't matter to me. I think they are slightly different, but really, they are all Elf Els. The main difference is, NOW, that the first set came with the vampire head. Since those haven't been re-released, they are still pretty rare and expensive. But--as I said, that only matters if you sell and since I'm not, they can release a ton of them and it doesn't matter to me.

However, to people trying to buy these dolls, it does matter, since they can hope to buy a re-release without worrying about trying to bid on ebay auctions or risk strange sellers or high prices in the after-market. I feel sorry for people who had to pay lots of money for dolls in the after-market and then see re-released versions go on sale for much less!!! That's horrible!
But as an owner already--I'm not affected like that!

I would love everyone to have a standard version of this mold because everyone could enjoy him/her the same if he was a standard to begin with- but this mold (and a lot of other molds from other companies) were limited and i have this want for it to STAY that way.
Well, I agree in a way. I agree totally with the idea of making things just a standard. And if they want to limit--I agree it should stay that way... but I wish companies wouldn't limit at all. It just causes lots of stress and heart-ache. Look at what happens with the Bermanns. Lots of bad feelings there!!! But if they kept making them... people would be happier.

I'd rather spend endless hours and days trying to get the mold at an exaggerated price than knowing it could possibly become standard.
Gak!!! Not me!!!! Never! I'm not going to pay horrible prices for any doll. I will just be very sad about it, but --no... forget paying 6k for a Bermann. Nice if you can do it, but it's not for me!!! I can't afford it, frankly. *_*

I have bought one head and one doll in the DoA Marketplace... the head was originally a free Luts Christmas Head, but I paid a reasonable (maybe a little higher) price for a retail head. The doll I paid about how much it was retail. Maybe a little more, but not a lot. My other limiteds were bought during the initial offerings, so I paid decent prices for them. BJDs are expensive enough without paying through the nose for a doll in the aftermarket!!! :|

[celestia]

Do you buy certain dolls because they are limited only?
Silly reason to buy a doll--unless you're planning on scalping it later! I buy because I want that doll/sculpt, of course. Being limited may be an added incentive to some people... to me, it's only important because I know I have to get the doll when it is originally offered, because I don't want to risk the after-market prices and hassle.

It's possible for people to like a doll because it is limited and only because it is limited- but maybe some people can enlighten the rest as to why? Maybe they grow to love it so much after all and being limited is special for them?
Like growing to love a rich man because he was rich in the first place? It's always nice to hear these people out because a lot of us buy sculpts based on what we like in the 'now'- its not always 'silly' to be doing something someone else thinks differently of.

Having the dolls be unlimited would be SO much nicer... less stress about having to buy immediately and all that. But if the doll I want happens to be limited, I just have to deal. I'd rather there were NO limited dolls--that everyone had some time to save up for and buy the doll they want!!!
And that's the problem buyers face- having to fork out extra money for a limited when a standard version would be released later. It would be nice if limiteds were actually limited rather than having consistent re-issues of the same mold after being proportionate to a supposed 'solid' number of limited stock.

_______________

I think the majority of responses are more than happy with everyone having limiteds become standards because everyone gets access- but at the same time, feel when a limited is a limited, shouldn't be re-released ..but as a result, people end up missing out anyway.

At the same time, would a standard mold becoming discontinued ever reach the same after market price as a limited that has an undetermined time before it gets re-issued?

These questions and discussion isn't directed straight at a person. It is open for discussion- not to ridicule people who may or may not secretly buy limiteds because of what they are. X3 (disclaimer > >: not saying you are)

A lot of my thoughts don't necessarily reflect whether or not i think rarity is important to me as a hobbyist.

I didn't find the rest of your answers on being "other people's business" contributed greatly to the topic at hand. If you choose to interpret them in an intrusive way, it does not mean someone else might think the same. It also does not mean you are obliged to share, but i find it a rather superfluous to state it isn't anyone's business if you're already reading the topic and other people's opinions. (Though i think you might not have understood exactly what some of the questions were for nor do i think it was prying into anyone's business the way it was presented.- Each to their own of course.)

[harlowe]

I didn't find the rest of your answers on being "other people's business" contributed greatly to the topic at hand. If you choose to interpret them in an intrusive way, it does not mean someone else might think the same. It also does not mean you are obliged to share, but i find it a rather superfluous to state it isn't anyone's business if you're already reading the topic and other people's opinions. (Though i think you might not have understood exactly what some of the questions were for nor do i think it was prying into anyone's business the way it was presented.- Each to their own of course.)

QFE, also, with that sort of logic ("other people's business") we'd have to add that what a company does and why is "their business" and the whole discussion is pointless.

[sgtgeorgecarter]

I don't look at them as investments either but I think everyone expects them to at least hold their value. Otherwise you would be able to get every doll cheaper on the secondhand market instead of having to pay as much or more for the same doll later on.

Their value as a limited is at issue because the companies charge a lot more for a limited. If they are not going to keep their word and keep releasing the same doll then they shouldn't charge more for it.

I don't expect them to hold their value. Why would they? Actually I'm amused that so many people assume a used item is worth more than new. Probably because I come from a different background.

Yes the companies do charge more for a limited. I just look at it as an excuse to charge more. I don't imagine at any point the company cares for more than making their $$ out of their product. If I can't afford the limited, I don't get it. If I can and I feel it's worth the $$, I 'll get it. If I spent my time worrying about reissues I'd never buy anything. I don't second guess. If I like something, I have to like it for the money being asked. If I don't, I pass.

Absolutely not, in my opinion. You shouldn't expect someone else to literally pay for your decision. If you put it on auction and you get bid up that high? Happy times. But value is based on what someone is willing and able to pay for an item. The doll's value may have been $2000 to you, but to everyone else, its value is no more than $800, let's say. And if that's the case, you can insist all day long that you won't take less than $2k for it, but you'll be keeping that doll yourself until the one random person to whom it's also worth $2k shows up.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

I tend to buy dolls because something about them appeals to me not so much whether they are limited or not so for me resale value isn't an issue.

Same for me.

[miss sha]

I'm also not seeing the bafflement and outrage over charging more for a limited doll. More often than not, limited dolls are more expensive than standards because... they come with a LOT more stuff! Luts limiteds come with a second head, usually a second pair of hands, maybe a pair of shoes. Volks dolls come with a full outfit, shoes, the whole shebang. They're not just jacking up the price because it's a limited sculpt - you're paying for all the extra stuff you're getting as well.

[sgtgeorgecarter]

I'm also not seeing the bafflement and outrage over charging more for a limited doll. More often than not, limited dolls are more expensive than standards because... they come with a LOT more stuff! Luts limiteds come with a second head, usually a second pair of hands, maybe a pair of shoes. Volks dolls come with a full outfit, shoes, the whole shebang. They're not just jacking up the price because it's a limited sculpt - you're paying for all the extra stuff you're getting as well.

As long as those extras are included. Its when people want that money for a nude, eyeless, wigless, sometimes faceup wiped doll that I think they are going over the line.

[miss sha]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean more about when the companies charge more for a limited, that those extra are included. I agree it's totally ridiculous when an owner (or scalper, depending on your point of view) charges the original price or MORE than the original price when the doll comes nude, eyeless and wigless, or even on a completely different body.

[celestia]

If there was a sculpt i wanted but was only available as a limited-never-to-be-released and happened to come with make up, clothes, accessories and whatnot- i'd buy it? Sure. Because i'd want the headsculpt and it wasn't going to be re-released anywhere. .. If the same company turned around and announced the doll was now available as a standard kit-nude-doll... i'd be like "WTF3%!#$^%!". I'm one of those who want to purchase the naked sculpt *only*. I can spend time choosing my own eyes, wig- making my own outfit for them and what not.
I could only imagine the horror if the accompanying body was kind of like the first edition of Anais (lets ignore the reproductions for now and take the example of one doll as a doll- under another company even). If her and her original crappy body sold for $3000- i'd still buy it knowing she was limited and the only way to get that sculpt was to accept buying a crappy crap body. But if one day, they offered her as a standard version- similar to maybe a custom FCS- i'd kick someone's head in.

I don't want to pay extra for crap i don't want unless i absolutely *have* to. I don't enjoy having to sit and bump a thread to sell limited goods, no matter how tasteful.

[Bandwidth Broad]

Do you buy certain dolls because they are limited only? No, although as it happens, most of my dolls are limited.

Maybe you bought it because you really wanted it? There is no other good reason to purchase a doll. Purchasing a doll because you are counting on the value to go up is a bit like playing the stock market. Some go up, others go down. When it comes to the items that we collect, we should purchase what we like. That's really the only thing that counts.

How do/would you feel when/if they get re-released? I guess this goes back to the "why do you consider a doll limited" thing, doesn't it? The fact that a doll is limited goes way beyond face sculpt and special hands -- it includes the specific eyes, wig, and outfit that came with a doll. In that respect, if the limited dolls is released in another outfit, with a different wig and eyes, it is no longer the same doll. I was thrilled when Shiro Tachibana was re-released in an after school edition, because I had wanted him for years (I became aware of him too late and his first edition was sold out). However, and this is an important however ... Volks never says they won't re-release a doll, and they are VERY good about putting out limited editions with different aesthetics. Sometimes the doll has been painted in a different way. Sometimes something about the mold has been changed (Sasha/Masha). The outfit and accessories are always different. Because Shiro Tachibana I's outfit was something I most particularly liked about him, I searched high and low until I found it on Y!Japan for a reasonable price. It astounds me when once an individual has sold off eyes/wig/original outfit/changed the faceup, s/he still wants to call the doll a limited. At that point it may well be a custom, but it is no longer a limited.


Is the word 'limited' becoming less accurate to you as a result? No. See my response above.

[miss sha]

It astounds me when once an individual has sold off eyes/wig/original outfit/changed the faceup, s/he still wants to call the doll a limited. At that point it may well be a custom, but it is no longer a limited.

Hmm... now, this I disagree with. It's different if the doll is regularly a standard, but the limited edition has a special faceup, wig, eyes and outfit. Wiped, wigless, eyeless, and nude, yes that doll is no longer a limited edition. But using a your example, a wigless, eyeless and nude Shirou Tachibana, IMO, is STILL a limited doll, because that sculpt is not readily and regularly available. More than anything, at least with Volks dolls, it is the sculpt that makes the doll limited.

[Bandwidth Broad]

True, it is very different if the doll is a standard. And yes, I agree that the limited edition does have a special faceup, wig, eyes, and outfit. And yes again, I agree entirely that there are some limited sculpts. However, in the case of the re-faced up doll, I think I'd be more comfortable if a doll in marketplace had a caption something more like this -- "Limited sculpt, custom faceup Shirou Tachibana." Picky, yes, but when checking ads that have an allegedly limited doll in them, I expect them to look like the limited -- especially if I am going to be asked to produce the amount (or more -- which I actually won't do) that the doll went for to begin with. I don't mean to sound critical at all, but is that understandable? I guess it's a question of labeling for me. I like to know exactly what I'm looking at.

[Amanohara]

Background: My doll collection: Unoa Lusis x2, Unoa Sist Boy, Unoa 2.0 Mocha, BC Tan Elf Kumi (1 of 20), (soon)Unoss.

Do you buy certain dolls because they are limited only?

I buy a doll I have absolutely fallen in love with. Spending this amount of money on something I don't like just because it's limited is ridiculous to me.

I can see someone feeling great having something most people don't, but what's the point if he/she can't enjoy the actual item? only the satisfaction in how others' feel towards it? .. ?? This kind of mentality is unhealthy.

Maybe you bought it because you really wanted it?

I have bought all my dolls because I really wanted them, I don't look at them and say 'these are hard to get' or 'this one is limited 1 out of 20'
I can't imagine shelling out the cash I have for my dolls if I didn't really want them.

I was also very surprised by the amount of buying and re-selling in this hobby. I'd find it hard to sell something I've become so attached to. I buy something originally I know I will love and keep forever. And if I can't, or am having difficulty with a doll, I think about getting a new wig, eyes, clothes, new face-up, not selling.

Maybe it's different for me and I'm more attached because I've actually never bought a special face-upped, clothed, limited doll from a company? I've spent the time painting their faces, getting wigs, eyes, clothes to make them the dolls I want them to be.

How do/would you feel when/if they get re-released?

I think I more or less said 'oh well' when the unoa girls got a new preorder, I've been loving my first doll, a Unoa Lusis for almost a year now, and I bought her in kit form for about twice her preorder cost. There is no monetary value on time or happiness for me.

Is the word 'limited' becoming less accurate to you as a result?

I think every doll company means well, in the case of the BambiCrony incident Cassiel brought up, many people complained and cancelled their doll orders.. the limited outfit dolls were lovely but the blue resin was what everyone thought was limited.. but the blue elves are limited as well because of the timeframe you could order in. .. I'm blabbing..

All it comes down to is..
I think all doll buyers should approach any sale of this magnitude with caution. seriously can bankrupt you..

[Lizzard]

Are there really people out there who buy dolls just because they're limited?

I love the El mold. I love the El mold with elven ears even more, because pointed ears are adorable! The large number of regular Els in existence can't change the fact that I adore the aesthetics -- but neither can the limited number of E-Els make me love the design more than I already do.

Allowing statistics to cloud one's vision of a doll's beauty seems downright bizarre to me. If I were looking at a gorgeous tropical view and heard the person standing next to me say that it wasn't gorgeous at all because there were over 100 other tropical islands in the same area, I would think they were insane. WTF do numbers have to do with evaluating the one item right in front of your face?

[Kaye]

As an artist who makes limited edition dolls I would like to add my opinion. To me it is a matter of ethics .. if the doll is limited to a particular number the artist/company should stick to that number. If they then release a second edition of the same doll I would lose trust in that artist or company. There are people who prefer to buy limited edition dolls and that is their right and they should be able to buy with the assurance that their dolls are indeed limited to the number the artist/company specifies.
On a personal note, hell will freeze over before I re-release any of my limited edition dolls. My own reputation and my customers faith in me is extremely important to me.
:)
Kaye

[purplewiz]

Maybe I'm not bothered by the doll companies' loose interpretation of the word "limited" because I come from the action figure collecting world. In that world sculpts that have been released in large numbers are often reused for limited figures - they're cast in clear plastic or have a different coat of paint on them. What makes it limited is that EXACT version as a whole.

When I see limited on a BJD, I tend to assume it means that the exact combination is what's limited: the conglomeration of outfit, wig, eyes, doll, face up, etc. I don't ever expect they won't rerelease the headmold or the outfit in a different color or the wig in a different color.

I've bought limited dolls, but not because they were limited. I bought them because I wanted them - and frankly, in the case of my Chii, I really wish she WASN'T limited because I would have been able to get her with a lot less trouble!

I've always said that my dolls are unique because they are mine, not because there are only so many of them in existence.

Marcia.

[jpopdoll]

I agree with Purplewiz, having collected dolls for many years now, before bjd's, I really disliked collectors who clamoured to get the "limited" dolls, not that they liked them but that the value of their collection would increase. I giggled evil giggles when the doll market crashed. I think making a mold limited only gives amo to scalpers. I fall in love with a face, he/she can be nude or dressed in rags, but I want that face. I wish the bjd world would stick to limited meaning "dressed and painted like this". There are so many Volks dolls I love but at 2000 or more, will never be in my grasp.

[Vega]

Volks never puts a number on their limiteds, nor do they ever say 'this mold will stop being produced after this release' like other companies. I don't mind that Volks re-releases certain molds because they are not going back on their word. It's also come to be expected that Volks may re-release some molds.

I, personally, think that's an interesting distinction. I'm sort of inclined to agree with it myself.
The one thing I know for sure is that I, like many others, buy a doll based on whether or not I like it, not whether it's limited or not. I don't think my feelings will change if my doll is in a release of 10 or 10000. The *other* thing I know for certain is that if Volks ever decides to re-relese Tsukasa Konoe I will be THE happiest girl in the Northern hemisphere. :p
-Vega

[Kahli]

I don't know if this specific one has been mentioned but I got the first "limited" edition of the Nabee in the red/black kimono. I got her because I loved her not because she was limited and yet.... when the exact same doll with the exact same wig, eyes, kimono, faceup was released again as a "limited"-- yep, it did pi$$ me off. :angry
So "limited" means what to Elfdoll? Limited to... however many we want to release at any time we want to re-release them?
I still love my Kayako-- but I'm not so crazy about the Elfdoll company because of it.

That said-- I keep giving them my money because I love the Rainman sculpts best of all! :damnit

vicki

[Justice]

Personally, I can see why there's so much outrage - indeed, there are people who get their limited dolls just because they are limited. But what should I do if I fell in love with a limited doll which has been sold out long before I saw it? Kill myself? So I'd be happy to get a basic or a re-release and morale does not bother me in this case. I am not responsible for someone else's feelings due to the fact that someone paid much more money for a doll he considered to be limited, this is their problem, not mine. I, too, have a right to own something I can pay for because this is love, and you cannot just throw it away or forget it. Sounds a bit selfish but that's the way it is.

As for the companies who do this - who are we to judge their morale or ethics? If someone considers a re-release of a limited doll outrageous, don't buy it. I will :) I guess people could just go on strike and not buy such dolls from such companies, and announce, I dunno, something like a ban for such companies. But there would still be people who don't care about limited editions. They'd buy the doll they fell in love with, and that's it.

[kathrynmary]

i buy a doll because i like it. i dont think about whether it will be limited or not.

[wjsdpwl]

i do not like limited, it just get more expensive and hard to get. i was so happy of one time that one doll i really loved was limited, but rereleased.